Belgian Saison

[Nick JD]

Gonna put a Belgian Saison down in a warm corner of the garage for a few weeks now it's getting summery. Does this recipe have any issues?

17L
3.5kg Wey Pils
0.4kg Dextrose
0.1kg Wey Caramunich 3
0.05kg Special B
10g Galena 60min
15g EKG 20min
WY 3724 Belgian Saison @ 20-30C

:icon_cheers:

EDIT: I read saisons often have a bit of sugaz, is this too much? Will it be insanly thin? Also, every afternoon (when the sun's on it), my garage gets close to 35C - is it advisable to push this yeast to that end of its range?

I've read about people finished it off with another neutral yeast - was that below 35C?

 

[_HOME_BREW_WALLACE_]

Gonna put a Belgian Saison down in a warm corner of the garage for a few weeks now it's getting summery. Does this recipe have any issues?

17L
3.5kg Wey Pils
0.4kg Dextrose
0.1kg Wey Caramunich 3
0.05kg Special B
10g Galena 60min
15g EKG 20min
WY 3724 Belgian Saison @ 20-30C

:icon_cheers:

EDIT: I read saisons often have a bit of sugaz, is this too much? Will it be insanly thin? Also, every afternoon (when the sun's on it), my garage gets close to 35C - is it advisable to push this yeast to that end of its range?

I've read about people finished it off with another neutral yeast - was that below 35C?

I have done a couple of saisons because of lack of temp control and regularly did single malt, single hop and a touch of dex. They do come out a tad thin but i learned to mash a tad higher (mid to high 60's) they don't come out that bad.

PM Tony, He does a shitload of them, and i read in one of his threads that he even wrapped a 'leccy blanket around his fermenter and put it in the shed to finish off (as that yeast is notorious for getting sleepy towards the end of fermentation).


EDIT: Good luck with it and let us know how it goes! :icon_cheers:

 

[pk.sax]

I put down one last weekend, used half a kilo of raw sugar into the boil.

From the sample in tube that I have that I'm using to culture up the dregs of the yeast packet, its still quite orange, no opaqueness or haziness at high temps, knocked over the tube when I opened the fridge so have to wait for it to settle again to see what it looks like colder.

I've fermented it ~25-30 so far, will take a reading today - the krausen has totally died out leaving a thin layer of bubbles, think I pitched monday evening.

 

[[email protected]]

Nick JD, I have done a few saisons using this yeast. The recipe looks fine - I use about 10% of sugar in mine and also mash low (63C). The style is suposed to be dry often finishing around 1004-1006.

One tip I got from Bridge Road Brewers and from the Farmhouse Ales book is the yeast doesn't mind being pitched warm so can be pitched at 25C and let rise to 30C. It also apparently becomes less tempermental after a few generations. If you need to finish off with another yeast ( I got impatient after a month at 30+C with a gravity still only 1035) I have generally cooled it down to 20C for the second yeast to do it's job.

Good luck.

 

[mika]

35 didn't seem to do the yeast any harm, but my experience showed it slowing down once you got past about 32.
Can't say I agree with the warm pitch, that'd have to lead to fusels.
I started mine off sub 20 and then picked it up. Took +9wks to ferment out with that damn yeast.

 

[pk.sax]

First 2 days got the wet towel + frozen bottle treatment.... I wasn't monitoring the temps though. Just took a reading at the start after putting the towel on - 23C.

 

[zebba]

Mines up to two weeks in the fermenter now.

OG 1.053

Started @ 26, it took off and started throwing all sorts of lovely smells. 3 days in, krausen disappeared. I had been expecting this though and had been stepping up the temp gradually. It was sitting @ 1.038 after the first week. It's now been another week @ 32 degrees and is down to 1.019.

My recipe was 50% wey pils, 50% ding pils, styrian goldings to 25 IBU @ 60, then 30g saaz @ flameout (no-chill, so I counted it as a 10min addition for another 6 IBU)

I've got it sitting on a frdigemate controlled heat pad, and wrapped in a dirty big blanket.

It's tasting mighty fine though. My first sample after week 1 was full of banana's, but my last sample the bananas had died off and it was starting to taste good

 

[Nick JD]

Great info, fellas. Keep it coming - good to hear everybody's Saison experiences.

I'm sure there's a lot of brewers considering an ambient ferment batch. I ummed and ahhhed about going for the French yeast - anyone got comments on that stuff? Is it much different to the Belgian? I've already got the Belgian yeast for this batch but I might try the frenchy too.

The only commercial saison I've tasted was Hennepin's Farmhouse Saison. It was EPIC.

Whoa! 9 weeks ... think I'll bung it in a jerrycan fermenter and forget about it.

 

[argon]

Great info, fellas. Keep it coming - good to hear everybody's Saison experiences.

I'm sure there's a lot of brewers considering an ambient ferment batch. I ummed and ahhhed about going for the French yeast - anyone got comments on that stuff? Is it much different to the Belgian? I've already got the Belgian yeast for this batch but I might try the frenchy too.

The only commercial saison I've tasted was Hennepin's Farmhouse Saison. It was EPIC.

Whoa! 9 weeks ... think I'll bung it in a jerrycan fermenter and forget about it.

Yeah good info from all. Been considering a saison for couple of years now done outside the ferm fridge through summer. Looking to split a double batch with a mate who ferments at ambient anyway, so this could be starter.

 

[Nick JD]

Yeah good info from all. Been considering a saison for couple of years now done outside the ferm fridge through summer. Looking to split a double batch with a mate who ferments at ambient anyway, so this could be starter.

Everything I read about this yeast is that it takes ages and ages, so I thought, why not just put it in the garage by the rollerdoor (like an oven in summer with the arvo sun on it) and walk away? Brew and forget brewing!

 

[bconnery]

Great info, fellas. Keep it coming - good to hear everybody's Saison experiences.

I'm sure there's a lot of brewers considering an ambient ferment batch. I ummed and ahhhed about going for the French yeast - anyone got comments on that stuff? Is it much different to the Belgian? I've already got the Belgian yeast for this batch but I might try the frenchy too.

The only commercial saison I've tasted was Hennepin's Farmhouse Saison. It was EPIC.

Whoa! 9 weeks ... think I'll bung it in a jerrycan fermenter and forget about it.

I love the French Saison yeast 3711. Less temperamental in my experience than what I've read about the belgian.
I've never let it get quite that hot personally but ambient temps in a garage in Brisbane around late September/October...
I haven't made a saison with the belgian one but my understanding is that the french is more on the spicey side, perhaps less bubblegum etc.

I've used the 3711 in some other styles too.
Goes great in a stout when fermemted a little cooler, under 20, so it stops a little earlier than the usual.
I believe others have let it dry a stout right out too...

 

[pk.sax]

Mofo is @ 1032, 1035 with temp correction. basterd.

Started at 1053 just like urs Zebba.

Tastes nice. Was done with all styrian Goldings. Chilled and settled tube is very hazy. I remember it was crystal clear sitting on the bench at ambient.

 

[manticle]

I've only ever used French Saison 3711. I was happy with the results. Exact recipe escapes me but it was very simple - euro pils, wheat malt and some kind of noble hop for low 30ish IBU.

As far as style goes (not that I'd believe you care nor should care about that) saison historically has varied widely. Some are bitter, some are hoppy, some are spiced, some are not, etc. Historically low alc and dry finish but as the style has evolved and/or become revived, even that is not a given.

This summer, I have plans for at least 3 saisons - one with Belgian saison WY, one with French and one with PC farmhouse ale.

All same grist (pils, wheat) all with noble hops (probably spalt and maybe some saaz and/or styrians) to about 35 IBU and all starting at 20 for 2-3 days then being allowed to run riot to whatever Melbourne summer gives us (not a lot by the current given state of things). Mashed low so no real need for dextrose.

 

[Tony]

Nick that yeast will take till feburary at under 25 deg.......... I have made Saisons with it at 28 to 32 deg fermented out in 2 weeks (from 1.038 to 1.002 or so) and it was almost clean!

Pitch it nice and healthy, and get lots of air in the wort, and keep it warm.

Im waiting for my garage to get over 26 and them in going to hammer them this summer........ astually i should get a fresh yeast.

cheers

 

[manticle]

Do you pitch low then let rip tony or just go for broke (belgian saison I mean)?

 

[Nick JD]

I recently made a board using a surfboard-based epoxy that (okay, seems I'm on the wrong forum ... read on!) was recommended to me to do a "post-cure", which is a mild "bake" between 35 and 50C.

Some guys put it in their car. But I've had boards go shrinkydink in hot cars, so I put a thermometer up against the roller door in my garage and fark, the door is about 55C, and within a foot of it is 35C. You can actually feel the heat radiate off it.

So I put the board up against it and DONE. Crisp, postcured epoxy - sanded like a dream - rock hard.

As the old brain does some times, I got thinking about the reliable 35C on nice days about a foot from the door. Always stays closed. SAISON!

So Tony - if I can get it above 30C ... will it be done in a month?

 

[pk.sax]

What do people do to kick it out of slumber once it's stuck at 1035?!

 

[beers]

I've only ever used French Saison 3711. I was happy with the results. Exact recipe escapes me but it was very simple - euro pils, wheat malt and some kind of noble hop for low 30ish IBU.

As far as style goes (not that I'd believe you care nor should care about that) saison historically has varied widely. Some are bitter, some are hoppy, some are spiced, some are not, etc. Historically low alc and dry finish but as the style has evolved and/or become revived, even that is not a given.

This summer, I have plans for at least 3 saisons - one with Belgian saison WY, one with French and one with PC farmhouse ale.

All same grist (pils, wheat) all with noble hops (probably spalt and maybe some saaz and/or styrians) to about 35 IBU and all starting at 20 for 2-3 days then being allowed to run riot to whatever Melbourne summer gives us (not a lot by the current given state of things). Mashed low so no real need for dextrose.

Spot on.
Keep it simple. Ditch the sugar & crystal, use a pils / wheat grainbill (or pils/rye, pils/spelt bill if you're feeling adventurous), pick a highly attenuative yeast, & mash low.

 

[bunyips]

What do people do to kick it out of slumber once it's stuck at 1035?!

Ummmm... sorry to sound dumb but should this be a north queensland specialty?

 

[winkle]

I've only ever used French Saison 3711. I was happy with the results. Exact recipe escapes me but it was very simple - euro pils, wheat malt and some kind of noble hop for low 30ish IBU.

As far as style goes (not that I'd believe you care nor should care about that) saison historically has varied widely. Some are bitter, some are hoppy, some are spiced, some are not, etc. Historically low alc and dry finish but as the style has evolved and/or become revived, even that is not a given.

This summer, I have plans for at least 3 saisons - one with Belgian saison WY, one with French and one with PC farmhouse ale.

All same grist (pils, wheat) all with noble hops (probably spalt and maybe some saaz and/or styrians) to about 35 IBU and all starting at 20 for 2-3 days then being allowed to run riot to whatever Melbourne summer gives us (not a lot by the current given state of things). Mashed low so no real need for dextrose.

farmhouse ale :icon_drool2: