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chiller

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I haven't given this a lot of thought yet and only post this because it will give all the office workers on the bosses time something to do.

Now please note this is definately not a beer to any style.

I really enjoy a dark beer but on the weekend TDA brought a bottle of an American APA to the Adelaide Floccs from his recent Alaskan sojurn. The base beer was ok -- it was well made but not overly different to other beers, the difference was the wonderful hop character but not mouth puckering hop character.

Now I woke this morning at 4.00am with a start and my mind began to race.
Why can't we brew a dark beer that has supurb malt character but also takes you to another realm as far as hop character goes.

I would like all grainers who are interested to consider how to craft a dark beer that meets the above characteristics.

It will mean thinking outside of the style square but may be a fun task.
The character I'm looking for is Ale like so here are my initial thoughts.

I have always considered brewing a Belgian stout [as far as I'm aware there is no such beast] so here goes

I haven't worked out exact amounts but will later.

Pilsner Malt
Munich Malt
Vienna Malt
Wheat Malt
sour Malt
Cara Aroma
Amber Malt
Carafa 2

That should give the malt character.
If you want to include or leave out malts do so but give reasons as to what that inclusion or exclusion will achieve regarding the profile of the beer.

Now the hops: Use whatever you want.

My thoughts:
At least 100 grams mash hopped styrian Goldings

then a mix of styrian goldings and Saaz every five minutes through the boil from the start.

at flame out a large amount of hops to give aroma.


I was thinking about 1060 and around 40 - 50 ibu ----


Have fun and see what develops
Use whatever hops you think are appropriate.

Steve
 

chiller

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chiller said:
I haven't given this a lot of thought yet and only post this because it will give all the office workers on the bosses time something to do.

Now please note this is definately not a beer to any style.

I really enjoy a dark beer but on the weekend TDA brought a bottle of an American APA to the Adelaide Floccs from his recent Alaskan sojurn. The base beer was ok -- it was well made but not overly different to other beers, the difference was the wonderful hop character but not mouth puckering hop character.

Now I woke this morning at 4.00am with a start and my mind began to race.
Why can't we brew a dark beer that has supurb malt character but also takes you to another realm as far as hop character goes.

I would like all grainers who are interested to consider how to craft a dark beer that meets the above characteristics.

It will mean thinking outside of the style square but may be a fun task.
The character I'm looking for is Ale like so here are my initial thoughts.

I have always considered brewing a Belgian stout [as far as I'm aware there is no such beast] so here goes

I haven't worked out exact amounts but will later.

Pilsner Malt
Munich Malt
Vienna Malt
Wheat Malt
sour Malt
Cara Aroma
Amber Malt
Carafa 2

That should give the malt character.
If you want to include or leave out malts do so but give reasons as to what that inclusion or exclusion will achieve regarding the profile of the beer.

Now the hops: Use whatever you want.

My thoughts:
At least 100 grams mash hopped styrian Goldings

then a mix of styrian goldings and Saaz every five minutes through the boil from the start.

at flame out a large amount of hops to give aroma.


I was thinking about 1060 and around 40 - 50 ibu ----


Have fun and see what develops
Use whatever hops you think are appropriate.

Steve
[post="65497"][/post]​

By the way this is not another off the wall brewing competition -- it is just a way for me to pick your brains and not work too hard to produce a stunning dark beer. :)

The thrust is all grain but the principles could be adopted to kits and partials if you are skilled in that area.

Steve.
 

warrenlw63

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Sorry Steve,

I'll rain on your parade to a small degree.

There is one instance of a "Belgian Stout"

Ellezelloise of Hainaut make one called Hercule Stout. IIRC their specialty is Saison. Haven't tried the beer but I'm picking it's a good 'un. No idea of their ingredients.

Warren -

hercule_stout.jpg
 

chiller

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warrenlw63 said:
Sorry Steve,

I'll rain on your parade to a small degree.

There is one instance of a "Belgian Stout"

Ellezelloise of Hainaut make one called Hercule Stout. IIRC their specialty is Saison. Haven't tried the beer but I'm picking it's a good 'un. No idea of their ingredients.

Warren -
[post="65520"][/post]​

Well this is what I love about this forum,

The challange could be to brew a dark hop driven beer with Belgian characteristics.

As for yeast I would say the Wyeast 1762 or Whitelabs 550 would be great yeast for this beer.

So Warren and others lets craft a grain bill and hop regime and I will brew the sucker as soon as practical. :beer:

Steve
 

SteveSA

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Add a bottle of cough medicine at flameout and ignite with a NASA burner and we can call it "The Flaming Steve" ;)
 

chiller

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SteveSA said:
Add a bottle of cough medicine at flameout and ignite with a NASA burner and we can call it "The Flaming Steve" ;)
[post="65534"][/post]​

Now are you trying to tell me Steve that my beers have a medicinal taste ---- I thought only certain under attenuated big self opiniated stouts had that character :)

It seems I will have to start the ball rolling with a "real" grain bill.


Steve.
 

warrenlw63

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Steve,

Ellezelloise is fermented in oak. Have you considered maybe adding some oak chips during secondary fermentation?

Some dark candi sugar would be a good addition too. I'd go 500g in a 23 litre batch to push the OG up a little and add a little more complexity.

I'd use Dark Munich in lieu of the regular Munich and some of the the pils malt.

Small amount of controlled souring a-la Guiness Foreign Extra would be nice too if not a little risky. I'm thinking of something similar to Gouden Carolous with extra hop character and just a touch more roast. :chug:

Warren -
 

chiller

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warrenlw63 said:
Steve,

Ellezelloise is fermented in oak. Have you considered maybe adding some oak chips during secondary fermentation?

Some dark candi sugar would be a good addition too. I'd go 500g in a 23 litre batch to push the OG up a little and add a little more complexity.

I'd use Dark Munich in lieu of the regular Munich and some of the the pils malt.

Small amount of controlled souring a-la Guiness Foreign Extra would be nice too if not a little risky. I'm thinking of something similar to Gouden Carolous with extra hop character and just a touch more roast. :chug:

Warren -
[post="65537"][/post]​

Here is a possible start -----

BeerSmith Recipe Printout - www.beersmith.com
Recipe: Dark and tasty
Brewer: Steve Nicholls
Asst Brewer:
Style: You are joking --- right?
TYPE: All Grain
Taste: (Very)

Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Batch Size: 27.00 L
Boil Size: 33.09 L
Estimated OG: 1.071 SG
Estimated Color: 29.4 SRM
Estimated IBU: 38.9 IBU
Brewhouse Efficiency: 72.0 %
Boil Time: 60 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amount Item Type % or IBU
3.00 kg Vienna Malt (3.5 SRM) Grain 35.0 %
2.00 kg Munich Malt - 20L (20.0 SRM) Grain 23.3 %
2.00 kg Pilsner (2 Row) Ger (2.0 SRM) Grain 23.3 %
0.45 kg CaraAroma (170.0 SRM) Grain 5.3 %
0.25 kg Chocolate Malt (350.0 SRM) Grain 2.9 %
0.25 kg Corn, Flaked (1.3 SRM) Grain 2.9 %
0.12 kg Carafa II (412.0 SRM) Grain 1.4 %

100.00 gm Styrian Goldings [5.40%] (60 min) (MH) Hops 8.6 IBU
20.00 gm Styrian Goldings [5.40%] (60 min) (FWH) Hops 9.4 IBU
10.00 gm Styrian Goldings [5.40%] (60 min) Hops 4.3 IBU
10.00 gm Saaz [4.00%] (45 min) Hops 2.9 IBU
10.00 gm Styrian Goldings [5.40%] (30 min) Hops 3.3 IBU
20.00 gm Saaz [4.00%] (20 min) Hops 3.8 IBU
20.00 gm Saaz [4.00%] (15 min) Hops 3.2 IBU
20.00 gm Styrian Goldings [5.40%] (10 min) Hops 3.1 IBU

20.00 gm Saaz [4.00%] (1 min) Hops 0.3 IBU
0.50 kg Brown Sugar, Light (8.0 SRM) Sugar 5.8 %
1 Pkgs Abbey Ale (White Labs #WLP530) Yeast-Ale


Mash Schedule: My Mash
Total Grain Weight: 8.07 kg
----------------------------


Notes:
------


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Steve
 

Dunkel_Boy

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Looks bloody interesting.
When you originally posted, the first few lines anyway, I was thinking something along the lines of a dunkel ale with a complex hopping schedule, not necessarily a Belgian Stout. Or were you thinking Belgian stout right off the mark?
 

chiller

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Dunkel_Boy said:
Looks bloody interesting.
When you originally posted, the first few lines anyway, I was thinking something along the lines of a dunkel ale with a complex hopping schedule, not necessarily a Belgian Stout. Or were you thinking Belgian stout right off the mark?
[post="65539"][/post]​

I was just thinking -- and at 4.00 am that can mean a sleepless night :)

I want people to make genuine suggestions as this helps us all understand brewing -- not just cloning someone else's recipe.

Steve
 

Dunkel_Boy

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Alright, here's one for ya:

23L at 70%eff
2.5kg Hoepfner Munich (44.4%)
2.5kg Hoepfner Pils (44.4%)
250g Hoepfner Caramel Dunkel (4.4%)
250g Weyermann cara-aroma (4.4%)
125g Weyermann carafa2 (2.2%)

Est. SG - 1053; est SRM - 19.
Mash at 64C

Hops:
35g Halletau (4.5%) with 60 to go (22.2IBU cont.)
10g Halletau, 10g Hersbrucker (4%) with 30 to go.
Same with 20, 10, and flameout

Est. IBU - 35

WLP029 - German Ale/Kolsch


EDIT: Ok that's my secret dunkel grain bill... I hope you appreciate me sharing it. I should probably bitter with a different hop, since 22IBU from one addition of Halletau might not work the best. Maybe I should throw some Perle/NB as bittering.
 

Kai

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I don't know much about Belgians, but I do have a nicely hopped brown ale conditioning at the moment. A pity it uses c..c..c....nevermind
 

Dunkel_Boy

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Kai said:
I don't know much about Belgians, but I do have a nicely hopped brown ale conditioning at the moment. A pity it uses c..c..c....nevermind
[post="65561"][/post]​
Hmmm. So I'm guessing it's one for the sink?
 

Doc

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Ok, you've got me thinking now Chiller.
This is more my style of beer.
Will be giving it some thought tonight while bathing the kids. Will also look up all the previous Belgians I've brewed to isolate flavours of ingredients to expand on and come back. Dark Candi sugar or even Dark Muscovado sugar has to be in there from my point of view. WLP500 or WLP550 definitely for a yeast.
I like the idea of Belgian Stout, but can we take it a little further and say Imperial Belgian Stout. That sounds even better.

Doc
 

chiller

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Doc said:
Ok, you've got me thinking now Chiller.
This is more my style of beer.
Will be giving it some thought tonight while bathing the kids. Will also look up all the previous Belgians I've brewed to isolate flavours of ingredients to expand on and come back. Dark Candi sugar or even Dark Muscovado sugar has to be in there from my point of view. WLP500 or WLP550 definitely for a yeast.
I like the idea of Belgian Stout, but can we take it a little further and say Imperial Belgian Stout. That sounds even better.

Doc
[post="65563"][/post]​

I'm sure we can start a totally new "style" Doc -- the BIS

It will be a challenge anyway you look at it.


Steve
 

Doc

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chiller said:
I'm sure we can start a totally new "style" Doc -- the BIS
But no astringincy right !!! :lol: :p

Doc
 

chiller

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Doc said:
chiller said:
I'm sure we can start a totally new "style" Doc -- the BIS
But no astringincy right !!! :lol: :p

Doc
[post="65570"][/post]​

You certainly have that right !! :)

Now if a Belgian is big to start with -- how big is a Big Belgian Doc? And what have you got in mind for it?

Steve
 

kook

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warrenlw63 said:
Sorry Steve,

I'll rain on your parade to a small degree.

There is one instance of a "Belgian Stout"

Ellezelloise of Hainaut make one called Hercule Stout. IIRC their specialty is Saison. Haven't tried the beer but I'm picking it's a good 'un. No idea of their ingredients.

Warren -
[post="65520"][/post]​

Absolutely awesome stout.

As is De Dolle Special Export Stout, and Guiness Export Stout (Belgian version).

Edit:

My notes on both for anyone interested.

De Dolle Extra Export Stout - 84/100
AR=8/10, AP=5/5, FL=8/10, PA=4/5, OV=17/20
Bottle (9%):pours deep black with a lasting tan head. Gushed a *tiny* bit on opening. Lovely port aroma with liquorice there too. Sweetish start that follows through to quite a dry finish. Oily texture too. Lovely bitter chocolate and caramel flavours, with some dark fruits and vineous characters. Spice evident as it warms more, and a very warming sensation too. Lovely stout. Top stuff.

Ellezelloise Hercule Stout - 86/100
AR=9/10, AP=4/5, FL=8/10, PA=4/5, OV=18/20
Bottle (8.4%): Pours ruby black with a medium, lasting tan head. Berrys, raisins, chocolate, coffee, toffee and port wine. Brilliant aroma. Full soft mouthfeel. Sweet caramel and chocolate start, with a very fruity mid. Some woody notes come through too. Finish is suprisingly bitter and dry. Alcohol perfectly disguised, just a slight warming sensation. Top stuff.
 

chiller

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kook said:
warrenlw63 said:
Sorry Steve,

I'll rain on your parade to a small degree.

There is one instance of a "Belgian Stout"

Ellezelloise of Hainaut make one called Hercule Stout. IIRC their specialty is Saison. Haven't tried the beer but I'm picking it's a good 'un. No idea of their ingredients.

Warren -
[post="65520"][/post]​

Absolutely awesome stout.

As is De Dolle Special Export Stout, and Guiness Export Stout (Belgian version).
[post="65574"][/post]​

So I'm begining to see an SA Xmas case stout coming on here.

It would be nice if one of the Adelaide bottle shops had an example to taste.

Steve
 

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