Bb Caramalt Vs Carared

[braufrau]

I didnt mean for the post to sounds like i was attacking Wes, i was elaborating on what he said as it was quite brief. I just wanted to make sure melanoiden didnt need to be reserved for only lagers. As this is quite a newbie based thread

so ... wes, fourstar, anyone ... why is melanoiden for lagers? I sub. it for aromatic malt in american recipes.
Last two ales I brewed had melanoiden in them.

 

[Fourstar]

so ... wes, fourstar, anyone ... why is melanoiden for lagers? I sub. it for aromatic malt in american recipes.
Last two ales I brewed had melanoiden in them.

As i said, used to impart melanoiden qualities (toasty/bready/malty) and is not just 'reserved' for lagers, just used more often in them i suppose. Going to an extreme, you could even use a 'touch' <2% of melanoiden in a pils to avoid a decotion mash to get some melanoidens happening. I dont know how much this would effect colour thou. maybe 1-2 degrees?

 

[Ducatiboy stu]

http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum/inde...&recipe=439

Carared is my favorite Xtal when making red ales. Gives a fantastic red colour and beautifull malty toffee caramel flavour that suits red ales.

I use about 13% in my reds ( 650gms ) balanced with a small amount of RB to take the sweetness off.

Caraaroma also works well, but not essentiall.

caraaroma is a must in porters

 

[wessmith]

so ... wes, fourstar, anyone ... why is melanoiden for lagers? I sub. it for aromatic malt in american recipes.
Last two ales I brewed had melanoiden in them.

Cos you would normally never put crystal malts in a lager/pilsner style Braufrau. The crystal - any crystal will build a rich and full, sometimes cloying mouthfeel which aint in lager territory. Many crystal malts also attenuate poorly and that again is not what you want in the lager/pilsner style where you dont have the flavour hop additions to balance the crystal. Now with ales it is a little different - melanoidin will work fine in an ale but give a cleaner attenuation than Carared.

Wes

 

[schooey]

So CaraAmber would be out of place in a Marzen, Wes?

 

[domonsura]

Melanoiden is a fair sub for malts like amber malt and the notorious US victory malt. Obviously its not the same as those malts but it gives the needed 'toast/baking bread' quality.

I don't know that I would agree with that - regardless of Weyermann suggesting it can be used for up to 20% of the grist, IMHO melanoidin can be a little overpowering and requires careful use, whereas amber malt is much more forgiving in my experience. I personally would have suggested Bairds Brown malt or Amber as a sub for Victory rather than Melanoidin.

As far as Carared goes, I used 1kg in a 45 litre batch (11% of grist) and flavourwise it was really enjoyable, almost chewy - but the lack of red was a little disappointing - I was all amped up to get a beer like a fire engine .... The following batch I managed to bump the colour up a little by adding a little cararoma (200gm). Previous recipes not using the Carared but using the Amber and Bairds Brown respectively resulted in a brew that wasn't really red at all, but the Amber gave a sweeter chewier result, and the Brown a more bready depth to flavour. My personal preference was the Bairds brown, as I found that the Amber brew became not quite sickly but heavier going.

Not sure if any of that is any use to you Rough60......carared is still a bloody nice malt.

 

[schooey]

but the lack of red was a little disappointing - I was all amped up to get a beer like a fire engine .....

Hence my comment about the CaraAmber above.... I made a Scottish strong that I wanted to get a rich ruby red colour from and used 10% Carared, and it came out more deep brown to deep copper. I recently did a triple decotion Marzen with a slug of CaraAmber in it and it IS Fire Engine red (not something I was after) and has those wonderful biscuity and melanoidin flavours... without adding melanoidin... :blink:

 

[Jakechan]

You've all made me rethink my first post in this thread. I said I got a "nice red colour" with the Carared.
Well, I just drank a stubbie of the Irish Red I made with this and the colour was more accurately pale red/copper. I definitely got more red colouring with the Caraamber I reckon. Just dont want to be misleading.

Cheers,
Jake

 

[buttersd70]

carared 6%
caraaroma 3%
carafa s t1 1.5%
JW Ale for the base....



Red enough for me.

 

[schooey]

You should brew that again, Butters, but sub CaraAmber for the CaraRed and just see how much more red it is

 

[buttersd70]

You should brew that again, Butters, but sub CaraAmber for the CaraRed and just see how much more red it is

It's certainly worth thinking about.....when I was developing the recipe, I was actually considering the caraamber. Kept switching in my mind back and forth between the two, and finaly settled on the red....might have to do a couple in quick succession for comparison.

edit...or even a combo of the two....3/3/3 aroma/amber/red.....now theres a thought....

 

[reviled]

Actually good point about the carafa! My munich dunkel was 3kg Munich, 1.5kg Vienna, and 200g carafa and it was dark, but red like coca cola at the same time, it was completely bright without any chill haze (for my first time ever) but it was definately all red around the edges.. I guess the munich probably helped a tad also?

 

[rough60]

Thanks for all the replies, and comparison of diff specialty malts.
I was only really after info if carared was better than BB, but maybe some newbs got some good info out of the extra info that was supplied.
Cheers.

 

[wessmith]

Just to help round out the topic, I have uploaded a doc that explains ome of the properties of "special malts". The "Brumalz" mentioned is melanoidin malt.

Wes

View attachment Malting_spezial_malts_.doc

 

[Acasta]

Hey guys, i know this is off topic, but i figured its not worth making a new one;
Is there a wiki topic or document of some sort outlining all the malts and their purpose/description?
I read wikipedia's bit on malts and the above link and its not really what im looking for, i was hoping for somehing more along the lines of every malt catagory and then sub cataogires of each.
Thanks.

 

[manticle]

You will get a bit of a description from manufacturer's websites.

Palmer also discusses them in how to brew: http://www.howtobrew.com/section2/chapter12-1.html

A quick google search on malt types gave me this: http://www.picobrewery.com/askarchive/malttypes.htm

This: http://www.beer-brewing.com/beer-brewing/b...barley_malt.htm

and this: http://www.hogtownbrewers.org/brewschooldocs/malt-chart.pdf

Googling malt characteristics gives me this: http://www.homebrewtalk.com/wiki/index.php/Category:Malt This link has a great breakdown of subcategories with separate links and links to a chart with colour guide, flavour characteristics etc.

And this: http://www.learntobrew.com/page/1fbcj/Shop...yles_Chart.html

 

[Bribie G]

Also you could do worse than browse CraftBrewer (sponsor at top of page) malts and grains section - they don't write the descriptions themselves, they mainly cut and paste from industry sources so the info is quite reliable.

 

[Acasta]

A quick google search on malt types gave me this:

Google is my friend.

That palmer one is pretty much what i was looking for! thanks.