Batch Size

[bttjn]

Quick question. The batch sizes in the recipeDb refer to the volume post boil including trub ect. or the volume post ferment that would end up in bottles/keg.

 

[cdbrown]

When I've entered the recipes it's been volume into fermenter.

 

[argon]

+1 that's pretty much how most people view batch size... Volume into fermenter

 

[bttjn]

cheers!

 

[jayse]

hey what? most people are doing it wrong then really, if your calculating IBU and gravity etc then you have to account for the extra volume left behind, all calcualtion need to be for how much wort you actually made not how much of it you can manage to get into your fermentor and disregard the rest, pretend it does not exist.

no one cares how much of it you personally can get into your fermentor when looking at your recipes, everyone will be a little different, what you need is the actuall size of the wort at the end of the boil.

I don't see how there can be any confusion at all, common sense says you made/making so much wort and thats what the calculations are based on.

Volume into fermentor is sometimes refered to or calculated as brewhouse effiency, no one needs or wants to know or worry about someone elses brewhouse effiency, I couldn't care less if you loose 5 litres to the kettle and get 20 litres into the fermentor all you need know is you made 25 litres.

 

[GBH]

I normally take a sample of the wort cooled to 20 C and measure SG......... hopefully you haven't over added water and all you need to do is add water to correct SG to desired level.

 

[Cocko]

I normally take a sample of the wort cooled to 20 C and measure SG......... hopefully you haven't over added water and all you need to do is add water to correct SG to desired level.

Good practice but as far as reading a recipe goes, you should be looking at that amount of grain giving you the indicated gravity into that amount of wort, as Jayse said, post boil volume.

Obviously, adjusted accordingly to brew house efficiency - another reason the RecipeDB should have percentages on the grain bill h34r:

 

[manticle]

hey what? most people are doing it wrong then really, if your calculating IBU and gravity etc then you have to account for the extra volume left behind, all calcualtion need to be for how much wort you actually made not how much of it you can manage to get into your fermentor and disregard the rest, pretend it does not exist.

no one cares how much of it you personally can get into your fermentor when looking at your recipes, everyone will be a little different, what you need is the actuall size of the wort at the end of the boil.

I don't see how there can be any confusion at all, common sense says you made/making so much wort and thats what the calculations are based on.

Volume into fermentor is sometimes refered to or calculated as brewhouse effiency, no one needs or wants to know or worry about someone elses brewhouse effiency, I couldn't care less if you loose 5 litres to the kettle and get 20 litres into the fermentor all you need know is you made 25 litres.

I'm pretty rough with a lot of my calcs but generally I'd agree with this. If I'm cubing into a 20L cube, my calculations will be based on a batch size of 22-24 litres. Post boil is a batch size.

Depending on how much you lose to trub, the difference may not be worth worrying about but the principle makes sense.

Probably would make more sense to use the terms 'pre-boil' and 'post boil' as batch size does suggest what you get at the end to ferment which is way too variable.

I see all recipes in beer making as rough guides anyway as systems differ so much between people.

 

[felten]

Beersmith seems to go off the batch size for its IBU and gravity calcs, there is a large IBU/OG difference between a 25L batch size, and a 20L batch size with 5L trub/chiller losses, which is a little confusing.

 

[Cocko]

Beersmith seems to go off the batch size for its IBU and gravity calcs, there is a large IBU/OG difference between a 25L batch size, and a 20L batch size with 5L trub/chiller losses, which is a little confusing.

Is the trub not a volume of the brewed beer?







BTW: Your avatar is more than disturbing.

 

[browndog]

Beersmith seems to go off the batch size for its IBU and gravity calcs, there is a large IBU/OG difference between a 25L batch size, and a 20L batch size with 5L trub/chiller losses, which is a little confusing.

yes, it is strange, to get a true calculation of the IBUs you need to set your losses to 0 otherwise beersmith will only calculate the IBUs for your batch size and not take the losses into account when calculating the IBUs.

 

[Cocko]

yes, it is strange, to get a true calculation of the IBUs you need to set your losses to 0 otherwise beersmith will only calculate the IBUs for your batch size and not take the losses into account when calculating the IBUs.

And of course the accounting for no-chill if no chilling.... h34r:

 

[Screwtop]

Batch Volume is the volume in the kettle post boil.

Screwy

 

[argon]

Well... Learn something new every day... Always thought it was into fermenter. I guess it comes from the old dark k&k days of batch size in fermenter.

I tend to leave 3L or so behind in the kettle for a double batch so looks like my batch size has just gone from 38L to 41L. Should change a few things then.

I have these losses setup in beersmith... But from what has been said above I'll be setting losses to kettle to 0 and adding 3L to batch size so my calcs work out properly.

Cheers

 

[jayse]

Its a pretty common mistake with beersmith, the set boil volume to equipment button/function does not work proberly, if you have loses set then the calcs should change when you check it and uncheck it. You can set loses to 1000 litres and still when you check the set boil volume to equipment feature there is no change except to tell you that you need a much bigger boil amount but the IBU, gravity and colour remains the same even though your batch would now be 1000 litres bigger.

It possibly makes it more confusing calling it brewhouse effiency as many refer to brewhouse effiency as yield into the fermentor volume and actuall effiency or mash effiency as the real yield in the full batch volume. Anyway brewhouse effiency in beersmith seems to be actuall yeild rather then yeild into fermentor.

Now you have it set right you will see you are actually getting a couple points more effiency then you thought you were and of course your IBU calculations will be more accurate.

 

[WarmBeer]

Batch Volume is the volume in the kettle post boil.

Screwy

This seems to contradict Beersmith's own help file, which says:
"Batch Size - The finished batch volume - i.e. the amount of beer you hope to brew. Batch size is used in calculating most of the elements in the beer profile."

 

[cdbrown]

So in beersmith I have Final Volume set to 20.8L because that pretty much suits the cube. I have been ending up with that amount for the few brews I have done leaving a litre or so of crap behind in the keggle. Should my final volume actually be 22L and I just remove the Lost to boil trub? I have boil off as 15% (6.9L for 90min boil).

 

[unrealeous]

So in beersmith I have Final Volume set to 20.8L because that pretty much suits the cube. I have been ending up with that amount for the few brews I have done leaving a litre or so of crap behind in the keggle. Should my final volume actually be 22L and I just remove the Lost to boil trub? I have boil off as 15% (6.9L for 90min boil).

You should set your final volume to 20.8 - as that is the amount of beer you wish to brew.

Your losses in the kettle are generally fixed - you'll leave the same amount in the kettle if you are brewing 10 or 30 litres.

If you set to 22 litres (ie 1.2 litre loss) - then decided to do a 30 litre batch - it makes no sense that you'd set your final volume to 30+1.8... That's the whole point of having programs like beersmith to work these things out for us.

 

[WarmBeer]

So in beersmith I have Final Volume set to 20.8L because that pretty much suits the cube. I have been ending up with that amount for the few brews I have done leaving a litre or so of crap behind in the keggle. Should my final volume actually be 22L and I just remove the Lost to boil trub? I have boil off as 15% (6.9L for 90min boil).

You can put your losses to the kettle in the Equipment setup screen, under "Lost to boil trub and chiller".

I lose about 1.5lt in the kettle after boil, and Beersmith uses this in the calculation of the pre-boil volume into the kettle.

Easiest way to work it out is just pour all the left-overs after a brew session into a measuring jug, voila, you know your loses.

 

[felten]

So in beersmith I have Final Volume set to 20.8L because that pretty much suits the cube. I have been ending up with that amount for the few brews I have done leaving a litre or so of crap behind in the keggle. Should my final volume actually be 22L and I just remove the Lost to boil trub? I have boil off as 15% (6.9L for 90min boil).

I set my batch size to my end of boil volume, and leave the losses to boil trub at 0.