Batch Size

[unrealeous]

I set my batch size to my end of boil volume, and leave the losses to boil trub at 0.

You can do this if you have a setup like Tony and extract every last drop from the kettle. Otherwise you are not making full use of your software...

 

[beerbog]

Batch size = post boil volume. :beerbang:

 

[unrealeous]

Batch size = post boil volume. :beerbang:

Hot wort contracts. You also lose a known amount to trub to the kettle. If you want beersmith to calculate these loses for you - it will happily do it for you.

Of course, you can set these to 0 and still make good beer. You don't even need beersmith - you could do it by feel and probably end up with something decent. Its just a tool to help you.

http://www.beersmith.com/forum/index.php?topic=2701.0

The only issue with beersmith is that it currently calculates evaporation losses as a percentage per hour, not as an absolute - so if you change your batch size it will get i the evaporation loss wrong.

 

[Screwtop]

This seems to contradict Beersmith's own help file, which says:
"Batch Size - The finished batch volume - i.e. the amount of beer you hope to brew. Batch size is used in calculating most of the elements in the beer profile."

Correct, the volume in the kettle post boil IS the amount of beer you hope to brew (with losses set to zero), all targets will be correct for this amount. If you want 21L in the fermenter and 2L of trub left in the kettle (best place for it) then you HOPE TO BREW 23 litres of beer.

You should set your final volume to 20.8 - as that is the amount of beer you wish to brew.

Your losses in the kettle are generally fixed - you'll leave the same amount in the kettle if you are brewing 10 or 30 litres.

If you set to 22 litres (ie 1.2 litre loss) - then decided to do a 30 litre batch - it makes no sense that you'd set your final volume to 30+1.8... That's the whole point of having programs like beersmith to work these things out for us.

Incorrect, volumes have been written about this topic, set losses to zero and set batch to total volume required as above. Batches with more hops will have greater trub volume, the BREWER needs to allow for this, Beersmith won't.

I set my batch size to my end of boil volume, and leave the losses to boil trub at 0.

Correct, as above

Screwy

PS: A shitload of stuff has been posted re this topic over the years.

 

[Screwtop]

Hot wort contracts. You also lose a known amount to trub to the kettle. If you want beersmith to calculate these loses for you - it will happily do it for you.

Of course, you can set these to 0 and still make good beer. You don't even need beersmith - you could do it by feel and probably end up with something decent. Its just a tool to help you.

http://www.beersmith.com/forum/index.php?topic=2701.0

The only issue with beersmith is that it currently calculates evaporation losses as a percentage per hour, not as an absolute - so if you change your batch size it will get i the evaporation loss wrong.

Shitloads have been posted re this too. Once you know your boiloff volume each time you create a recipe you need to adjust the boiloff % until your known boiloff volume appears in the calculated boiloff Litres textbox.

While what Jayse says

Its a pretty common mistake with beersmith, the set boil volume to equipment button/function does not work proberly

is correct, the tickbox needs to be ticked to have preboil volume calculated correctly after making changes to boiloff %.

Screwy

 

[unrealeous]

Once you know your boiloff volume each time you create a recipe you need to adjust the boiloff % until your known boiloff volume appears in the calculated boiloff Litres textbox.

Sounds like I've walked into a can of worms.

But if you are adjusting beersmith settings to achieve known losses for boiling - surely it would follow you'd adjust beersmith settings for your trub losses for high hop loads...

Why do it for one losse and not the other?

Anyway - I suppose as long as people are aware of the shortcomings of the tool (beersmith) and cater for it - then all is well in the world. You say tomato and all that jaz....

 

[WarmBeer]

Correct, the volume in the kettle post boil IS the amount of beer you hope to brew (with losses set to zero), all targets will be correct for this amount. If you want 21L in the fermenter and 2L of trub left in the kettle (best place for it) then you HOPE TO BREW 23 litres of beer.

For my system, and for my way of thinking, I like to target the batch size equal to the NC cube I'm going to use.

Regardless of whether I'm filling a 16lt FWK cube, a 22lt standard cube, or a 25lt jerry, the amount I lose to kettle trub is pretty similar due to the positioning of my pickup tube. I can tweak up the amount of water I sparge with if I'm putting in heaps of hops, but given I'm performing measurement using a metal ruler, it's not exactly ml accurate anyway. I know my volume losses from past experience (if you can count 10 AG's as "experience" :icon_cheers: )

Every system is different, and the only way to really get to know these intricacies is to brew, brew, brew. Eventually you get a feeling for your system, and how to compensate for different scenarios.

PS: A shitload of stuff has been posted re this topic over the years.

Agreed, 100%

 

[argon]

For my system, and for my way of thinking, I like to target the batch size equal to the NC cube I'm going to use.

Regardless of whether I'm filling a 16lt FWK cube, a 22lt standard cube, or a 25lt jerry, the amount I lose to kettle trub is pretty similar due to the positioning of my pickup tube. I can tweak up the amount of water I sparge with if I'm putting in heaps of hops, but given I'm performing measurement using a metal ruler, it's not exactly ml accurate anyway. I know my volume losses from past experience (if you can count 10 AG's as "experience" :icon_cheers: )

Every system is different, and the only way to really get to know these intricacies is to brew, brew, brew. Eventually you get a feeling for your system, and how to compensate for different scenarios.



Agreed, 100%

I guess onward from whats being said here I target to fill 2 fresh wort cubes. Which are 16L each.
So that means my post boil volume will have to be 32L + kettle losses say 2L. For a (beersmith) batch size of 34L.

Now taking all this into account I add top up water into fermenter prior to pitching. I have this entered into beersmith in the equipment profile. Top up water = 8L to get 20L into fermenter.

Now I assume that beersmith works all this out for me cause when I change the top up to 0L it changes the IBU, OG, colour etc figures for me.

Anyone see any problems with this method??

 

[Screwtop]

Sounds like I've walked into a can of worms.

But if you are adjusting beersmith settings to achieve known losses for boiling - surely it would follow you'd adjust beersmith settings for your trub losses for high hop loads...

Why do it for one losse and not the other?

Adjustments are made for both see below from a previous post:

Batches with more hops will have greater trub volume, the BREWER needs to allow for this, Beersmith won't.

Kettle losses are set to zero so that Beersmith calculates the correct IBU etc, then the trub/kettle loss is added to your final volume (post boil) made up of what you want in your fermenter + kettle/trub losses. In light of Beersmith's known failings brewers have been doing it this way for years. But hey! do it whatever way you like, take a square, knock the corners off and you have.......................... "a brand new wheel" :lol:

Screwy

 

[manticle]

I made a wheel out of an old wheel I found lying around. Works a treat. I just turned it upside down.

To me a lot of this stuff is less important than learning what to expect from your system and process. Beersmith (which I don't use but basically any software or spreadsheet) is simply a tool that prevents you having to do heaps of hand written mathematical formulae that you read in Daniels. When I develop recipes, I have an idea of what I want and play with the spreadsheet till I get it. There are still variables and will be throughout fermentation, even with identical recipes. The software/whatever can't hold your hand while you brew. If you get 21 litres instead of 22.56 or OG 1061 instead of 1059 then to me that's the luck of the draw. If you're way off then you have an issue or miscalculation that needs to be sorted out. That's half the fun of brewing (when that penny drops and the light goes on) but no need to focus too hard on the figures. You can hit all the targets you like and still make shit beer.

Making all the figures line up is undoubtedly important for commercial breweries - for us, I reckon as long as you can get consistency and understand what you are doing and why, there are things more worth worrying about.

 

[unrealeous]

Well being the argumentative type I setup 2 test equipments within Beersmith - equipment 1 with no losses, equipment 2 with losses.

Entered the same test batch on both equipment - boil Volumes differ but the OG/IBU is exactly the same. What a piece of shit. I stand corrected.

Nice to know. This might explain why my beer has been turning out so good.

Looks like a fix might be down the track...
http://www.homebrewtalk.com/f84/beersmith-...rk-right-87559/

 

[browndog]

Well being the argumentative type I setup 2 test equipments within Beersmith - equipment 1 with no losses, equipment 2 with losses.

Entered the same test batch on both equipment - boil Volumes differ but the OG/IBU is exactly the same. What a piece of shit. I stand corrected.

Nice to know. This might explain why my beer has been turning out so good.

Looks like a fix might be down the track...
http://www.homebrewtalk.com/f84/beersmith-...rk-right-87559/

Wow, it looks like the SOCs like Screwy know what they are talking about after all!

 

[manticle]

Wow, it looks like the SOCs like Screwy know what they are talking about after all!

What an enormous surprise.

 

[Screwtop]

Wow, it looks like the SOCs like Screwy know what they are talking about after all!

Whats this Old business :lol:

Screwy

 

[sama]

..........

Kettle losses are set to zero so that Beersmith calculates the correct IBU etc, then the trub/kettle loss is added to your final volume (post boil) made up of what you want in your fermenter + kettle/trub losses. In light of Beersmith's known failings brewers have been doing it this way for years

+1 to screwtops and most other beersmith users method