Bad Wort

[hughyg]

Hi
I made an ag on Saturday and I think it has some type of funky Yeast in it. I could get the temp lower enough to pitch my starter using my immersion chiller so I sat the fermenter in a water bath for the day to get it down. When I opened it up to pitch the yeast there was a slight white krausen and a slight corn smell. Could this be an infection? If so is there something I can do?
Cheers
HG

 

[Ross]

If it's developed a krausen unfortunately it's already fermenting & there's little you can do other than tip it.
It's highly unlikely it will ferment out & be drinkable.

Cheers Ross

 

[Mr.Moonshine]

There's a chance it's nothing, but it sounds like it's probably an infection. The corny smell sounds like a bit of DMS, which means either you made a brew with alot of pilsner malt and didn't do a 90min mash and 90min boil, or you got an infection. My last infected batch got a corny smell pretty damn fast too, and it only got worse. You could wait a bit and see how you go, but if it's infected you should just turf it.

Cheers,

Mr.Moonshine

 

[hughyg]

I thought it was dms. Could it be bacterial?
I used no pisner malt. Just golden promise and a bit if wheat. 60min mash and 75 min boil.

 

[Bribie G]

You could pitch and ferment, and let it go for about 4 days and give it a taste, any bad infection should be obvious by then. It's amazing how quickly an infection can take hold. I no-chill but often have a litre or so that won't fit in the cube so I run it off into a schott bottle and chill it separately. However Before I got the Schotts I used fruit juice jars. In this piccie one of them got infected overnight, and this is the result after less than 24 hours. No doubt the bugs got in while the wort was at a lower temperature as it was the last drainings out of the urn and was cool enough for some stray bugs to take hold. If you had had your wort hanging around for a whole day then it would have been a good target for stray bugs at the best of times (ask Chappo, he's had to nuke his entire brewery after a run of infections maybe from some fruit trees in the yard)



Hope it works out

 

[wynnum1]

boil again or add a steriliser like they use for wine

 

[marlow_coates]

My first thought would be to re-boil the whole thing.

Fermentation would only have just started so off flavours should be minimal, and a long boil will kill whatever wild yeast is munching away at it. Then re-cool and pitch ASAP.

Can't see a big problem with this method, but other, much more experienced, brewers did not recomend it, so now I am second guessing myself.....

Marlow

 

[Dazza_devil]

Would a rogue yeast necessarily be a bad thing?
Could it still turn out drinkable if a wild yeast has taken hold or what about pitching another yeast with it anyway and getting a blend?
I'm not offering advise here, it's a little out of my depth, just curious on this issue.
My O.G. samples often spontaneously start fermenting but they smell OK.
If the corny smell is DMS will it be permanent?

 

[hughyg]

Would a rogue yeast necessarily be a bad thing?
Could it still turn out drinkable if a wild yeast has taken hold or what about pitching another yeast with it anyway and getting a blend?
I'm not offering advise here, it's a little out of my depth, just curious on this issue.
My O.G. samples often spontaneously start fermenting but they smell OK.
If the corny smell is DMS will it be permanent?

I pitched a really strong starter into it. I'm going to get it through quick and chill. If it's looked bad this weekend it's going on the garden and I'll try it all again. If it is an infection it'll be very disappointing as it will be my first

 

[Mr.Moonshine]

Adding a strong starter probably won't help, seeing as the infection already took hold. If you only used golden promise and wheat you shouldn't be getting DMS, especially since it sounds like you had a decent boil. Boiling the wort again isn't a terrible option but I doubt the DMS will go away (Unless you keg it and bubble CO2 through the finished beer, I hear this can remove DMS but will also strip out hop aroma and some flavour).

Good luck,

Mr.Moonshine

 

[Nick JD]

Don't tip it!

Because you were cooling in your fermenter my guess is the "infection" is quite likely to be the yeasts you've been using (or a combo) in the lifetime of this fermenter - in much the same way lambics really need to be made in brand new fermenters to avoid those couple of thousand yeasties that are stuck in the cracks around your tap inlet.

I'd add yeast and monitor it. Chances are your infection is of a strain of beer yeast.

 

[chappo1970]

...ask Chappo, he's had to nuke his entire brewery after a run of infections maybe from some fruit trees in the yard

:lol: Glad I'm famous for something?


Don't bother fermenting it, as what Ross said it ain't worth it and it will not get better!!! In fact by brewing it further all you will do is encourage the damn f#cking stuff to infect more gear, take hold, infect taps etc. Tip the stuff, nuke the brewery and start again.

Clean up the brewery and hop right back on that horse.

Chap Chap

 

[Nick JD]

Did we not read the OP's OP?

...get the temp lower enough to pitch my starter using my immersion chiller so I sat the fermenter in a water bath for the day to get it down.

Mid thirties celcius ... "clean" fermenter ... had a few brews through it ...

I'll put $10 on the "infection" being from within the fermenter. Another $10 says that it's probably a US05 infection.

 

[hughyg]

Did we not read the OP's OP?



Mid thirties celcius ... "clean" fermenter ... had a few brews through it ...

I'll put $10 on the "infection" being from within the fermenter. Another $10 says that it's probably a US05 infection.

What is the op's op.

It has fermented away while I was at work with 1056. Gone from 1.042 to 1.032. However, still smelling corny. Im going to let it ferment out and will assess on the weekend. Damn disappointing as the beer was looking really strong out of the kettle. Was also as clear as any of my worts yet

Chappo how did you nuke your brewery? I was thinking of soaking everything in caustic.

 

[Nick JD]

What is the op's op?

Sorry mate - I got all acronymed out there. The original poster's original post.

Have a taste of it. Report back. At 1.032, you'll know if it's "off".

I'm still gunnun' for ya mate - I think the "corny" might be "wheatie". Bacterial infections aren't very corny. They're fcukin ehhhhhhhhh! DMS smells like something you could possibly injest - H2S is something you'd not stick anywhere near your mouth.

edit: your fermentation is also displaying a healthy yeast's speed. If it was fighting bacteria - I wouldn't expect that rate of fermentation.

 

[Guest Lurker]

I personally dont belive that a few stray yeast cells in a fermenter would cause a krausen within hours of brewing and before pitching, whereas a bacterial type infection which grows orders of magnitude faster than yeast could do that.

 

[Nick JD]

I personally dont belive that a few stray yeast cells in a fermenter would cause a krausen within hours of brewing and before pitching, whereas a bacterial type infection which grows orders of magnitude faster than yeast could do that.

Where do I find information about bacterial growth being orders of magnitude faster than yeast?

 

[hughyg]

the krausen was just a few white bubbles. I dont know where I would have picked up the infection. I use a commerical steriliser used in bottling lines at wineries. Its called linvasan and is a hydrogen peroxide based product that you dilute in water making a 1% solution. I use it neat and then rinse it of with a 1% solution, so im thinking it may have been an airbourne infection. Is it possible to get an infection that way? I mash/boil outdoors and this day took a lot longer to chill as it was really warm. Regardless of what happened I need to "nuke" everything

 

[RetsamHsam]

Where do I find information about bacterial growth being orders of magnitude faster than yeast?

I think GL is right in saying that bacteria will multiply faster than yeast, however I think your argument makes sense..

Seeing as the wort went into the fermenter at 30C the conditions for yeast growth would have been optimal. The corny smell is abit of a worry though..

 

[crozdog]

Infections from brewing outdoors do happen - ask Ray Mills - he ditched a lot of beer because he was brewing under a tree in the back yard!

The corn smell may be more like cooked vegetables, if so it is likely to be caused by bacteria (Obesumbacterium or Halnia). Here is some info i extracted from my BJCP archive:

Coliform bacteria strains can also give a strong cooked-vegetable note. Additionally, DMS compounds can be formed during the kilning of green malt and during mashing. DMS is also formed by the yeast in a normal fermentation. and during slow cooling of the wort by a non-microbiological chemical reaction.

Causes DUE TO PROCESS: Poor sanitation (primary cause); not boiling the wort for at least one hour; covering the brew pot during the boil, long cooling times (overnight) before pitching; under pitching; contaminated yeast (especially packet yeast and recovered sediment); high moisture malt, over-sparging with water below 160 degrees.

REDUCTION: Good sanitation; fresh yeast culture; open, rolling boil; quick wort cooling; high pitching rates; use of 2-row English malt; proper sparging.

Overall, it may be DMS caused by slow cooling, but considering the malt used & the slow cool it sounds more like bacteria to me. Dump it then nuke your setup like has been suggested. Caustic is a good idea - wear gloves & goggles & be careful.

The corny smell sounds like a bit of DMS, which means either you made a brew with alot of pilsner malt and didn't do a 90min mash and 90min boil, or you got an infection

Mr moonshine, to respond to your DMS comments......
- As per the reply above, DMS is a possibility, but if using modern well modified malts, the chances of experiencing DMS are low as these malts have low levels of DMS precursors.

- 90 minute mashes aren't necessary - conversion can be complete in 20 minutes - an iodine test will show if conversion is complete.

- Likewise, a 90 min boil isn't necessary, but can be helpful to reduce volume and concentrate flavours.

What is written in books and web sites in the US is not always necessarily applicable here in oz. I'm not having a go at you or trolling for a response to start flamewar3 (tm), I just hate to see what could be misleading information continually appear / foreign info repeated as appropriate fact.

FWIW, here are 2 good old threads on DMS :
http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum/inde...showtopic=17764
http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum/inde...23742&st=20 note ///'s comment on post #27

Beers :beer:
Croz