Any point cleaning a keg that's going to be refilled straight away

[manticle]

Wouldn't the correct analogy be washing up and drying your plate before going back for seconds?

OP asked if there was any point cleaning so no.

 

[manticle]

I'm drawing an analogy between a cornellius keg and a bright beer tank (which in some brew pubs are also used as serving tanks).

Kegs aren't cleaned because they go out to venues, they aren't stored refrigerated and their is no microbiological quality assurance once it returns to the brewery, aside form having to re-clean it. I clean my commercial kegs and home-brew kegs between every use, because I deem the risk higher than the reward, but as I say there are instances where it's acceptable not to clean a vessel. I.e. a bright tank, filled with bright filtered and/or sterile filtered beer.

Presumably his beer isn't filtered to quite the same level (if at all) and definitely not pasteurised. I appreciate what you're saying but this looks like a different story to me.
Breweries that operate in the way you mention would be damn sure their practices are closed and safe because the risk would be unacceptable otherwise.

 

[spog]

Had a quick flick through the replies and many of them i agree with,,,,,clean it before refilling.
When the keg was filled and pouring nice/good/great beers once its opened to be refilled its inviting nasties to come in and spoil the next fill,if there are NO contents left inside and the keg is cleaned from the last fill and the keg ends up contaminated it narrows the field when trying to work out what happened.

Cheers....spog.....

 

[Seeker]

It's not clean, any more than any other thing that's had foodstuff sitting in it. It's the very definition of not clean.
It's more risk because it's dirty.
By all means do it - your keg. Doesn't need our approval but the answer won't change.

Not a good example comparing with foodstuffs which are exposed to oxgyen, breath, and teeth.

I'm not suggesting this is better than cleaning, but so far no one has offered any reason not to do it apart from "it's dirty".

 

[contrarian]

It depends on what you mean by clean. I certainly don't strip a keg down completely between every fill but a kettle of boiling water, a good shake and a flush of the beer post only takes about 2 minutes, a quick spray with starsan and you're done.

If nothing else it stops the build up in the bottom of the keg.

Given it's an environment pressurized with CO2 and a percentage of alcohol it's likely that you would get away with it for a while but for a couple of minutes cleaning it's a no brainer.

 

[Seeker]

I have been stripping it down completely.

Kettle full of boiling water sounds a good idea, I have time for that

 

[Crusty]

I have been stripping it down completely.

Kettle full of boiling water sounds a good idea, I have time for that

That will take longer than a Starsan sanitize!

 

[Seeker]

but starsan only works on clean kegs - boiling water will clean and sanitise better than starsan.

 

[manticle]

Not a good example comparing with foodstuffs which are exposed to oxgyen, breath, and teeth.

I'm not suggesting this is better than cleaning, but so far no one has offered any reason not to do it apart from "it's dirty".

It is exposed to oxygen. It contains microbes and substances other microbes like. And 'it's dirty' is a damn good reason to clean something.

As I said - your keg, your process, your risk. Not sure you need our approval but you did ask and the answer is the same and will stay the same. Don't clean if you don't want to. Might be fine.
Yum.

 

[Moad]

I've done it plenty of times without issue, you open it to fill it regardless of whether you have just cleaned it or not and I would assume it is a fairly clean environment as it is. I don't make a habit of it, just if I'm in a hurry such as emptying fermentor on brew day.

 

[Crusty]

but starsan only works on clean kegs - boiling water will clean and sanitise better than starsan.

It will indeed but you will have to boil the keg for at least 10mins if you want it to be sanitary.
It seems no one's going to sway your decision as you have your mind made up already.
Just do what you think is right. You'll more than likely get away with it so good luck.

 

[Danscraftbeer]

Main point, or question is would you put some awesome good brew you have made into a dirty keg?

I gave in to the full wash and clean/dismantle, sanitize/lubricate seals, everytime otherwise you feel like your cheeting yourself of effort allready spent. Go the extra step it pays off. :chug:

 

[Eagleburger]

The acidity and low alcohol of my beer is slightly antiseptic. So I generally give a rinse and fill with the next antiseptic.



Not dead yet.



I do a strip and clean every few refills because I get bored.

 

[manticle]

Try putting it on your next cut.

 

[Pogierob]

The time spent discussing if you can be lazy or not could have easily been used to wash and sanitise the keg.

It is quite simple from what I see.
Is it good practice - no
Will you get away with it - most likely 9/10 times.
Will any of us other than yourself care about the 1/10 keg other than you when it does happen - probably not but I'm sure we can help you feel bad about the decision with a few well placed "told ya so's".

It's similar to dumping a new batch into a fermenter you just emptied without cleaning, sure it will work, but the confidence of being able to say it will be all good is heavily diminished.

 

[Rocker1986]

The time spent discussing if you can be lazy or not could have easily been used to wash and sanitise the keg.

This.

It takes all of what, 5 minutes? By all means throw in the next beer without washing the keg first, but for me I'd rather spend a few minutes cleaning it because in the end if you cut enough corners it'll come back to bite you, and then you'll have wasted a whole batch to infection that could have easily been prevented.

 

[Danscraftbeer]

Flavour! Remember, Flavour!

Those who brew up the gunge of dirty sauspans and make a soup. Is it good soup? It most probably wont make you sicks but is it good soup?

 

[motman]

Oxidation may be something to consider. My understanding is that it is a bit like a fire in that once it starts, it will pick up momentum and catch other products.. So if you have some ageing and or oxidation, you may increase the rate the next brew heads off. Granted, not much O2 in there but I'm sure it can still go rancid. Personally, I'd probably do it if in a tight spot but not regularly.

 

[butisitart]

i look at it pre-Lister. people made perfectly good beer for centuries without knowing what germs were. i'm more nervous in summer, but in winter, i take a lot more 'risks' and no problems. if we all want to get anal about it, we should be home brewing in science labs and wearing (at the least) shower caps, rubber boots and sterilised tee shirts.i rinse my bottles and sterilise on the next use (no wash), and some have gone through around 50 brews. i don't sterilise my caps anymore. if i'm brewing into a just emptied fermenter, i'll rinse. however, i'll make sure any yeast starter gear is as clean and sterile as you can get it in a home. (which probably ain't that sterile anyway).
why do commercial brewers pay so much attention to it?? they've got a lot more beer to dump, a lot of people ready to sue them, a consistency record on the line, and they've got a far more sterile environment to do stuff in. (which also explains why their beer tastes sterile).
there's a common sense balance there somewhere between being a slob and being a camp commandant.
if you're stupid enough to leave a keg for 2 days and THEN refill, good on you

 

[real_beer]

The whole problem with when you start looking for ways to lower your cleaning standards in one area you'll probably find you've started doing it in other areas already. Then one day bang, you've got a bad batch but where did it originate from? Is it coming from your wort chiller? Your transfer siphon, tap or tube? Your fermenter? Your yeast starter?

Some threads on this site have had members going crazy for weeks trying to find plastic tastes leaching from equipment and getting into their boil kettles, you'd think it'd be simple to solve but their frustrations prove otherwise. Not only should you keep a rigid cleaning regime number one on your list when brewing, you should also shock your system with an alternate method every ten batches or so to hit any bugs that could be building up a resistance to your present one. I understand you probably aren't thinking of doing this on a regular basis, but I'm afraid that's how all bad habits start and you'd be much better off not being tempted by it. Back in the good old romantic days of brewing hygiene standards were sometimes none existent and drinkable ale still got made, but you have to remember huge amounts were also dumped down the drain, and I think more often than not the brewer might have received a bit of a hiding