Another BIAB thread

[BrewedCrudeandBitter]

So I've got a few questions before I try my hand at BIAB for the first time.

I think I've been doing way too much reading before actually doing it so as with everything in homebrewing there is 45 different opinions for every aspect. But at the very least I'd just like to know what I'm planning to do isn't completely ridiculous.

So we've got a 70L pot which I've installed an electric element into it. Just a standard 20 odd litre batch size and thanks to ianh's outstanding spreadsheet hopefully our water volumes should be ok.
The first batch is just a basic pale ale.
90% ale malt 8% crystal 2% wheat
15g Chinook @ 30 mins
50g Citra @ 10 mins.
Firstly, in regards to mashing. An hour or 90mins? And is 65 degrees ok? Obviously we've got no idea how well our pot will be able to maintain the temperature so maybe just in case should we push it to 67?. Then I've read that people like to raise the temperature above 75 for 10 minutes to mash out after the 60 or 90 minutes has finished?
I thought that in general BIAB doesn't need a sparge but I also read that people are putting the bag into a container and running a couple of litres of hot water over it for a quick sparge then adding that to the wort before boiling. Would I then subtract this amount of sparge water from the original pre boil volume?
We'll be doing no chill so I'm a bit confused about cube hopping. So in general with cube hopping you forget the late hop additions and just throw them in the cube?
If that's the case would I just be doing a 60 minute boil then adding the chinook at 30 and then throw the citra in the cube? Then add the hot wort after whirlpooling and letting it sit for 10 minutes or so?

 

[philmud]

Keep it simple. 90 minute mash (for better efficiency), 67C IMO (you want some body), insulate your pot with an old Doona, camping mat or similar and it shouldn't drop more than 1-2C.

Do a mash out if your element isn't in contact with the bag, after all, you have to heat the wort to boil anyway. I mash out at 78C & believe this assists efficiency too.

Lots of BIABers do a sparge, lots don't. If you really want it's not hard to hold back a couple of litres of water to pour through your bag (after removing from the kettle) at mash-out temps. IMO you should skip it this time & consider it only if your efficiency suggests it'll help.

 

[Alex.Tas]

Firstly, in regards to mashing. An hour or 90mins? And is 65 degrees ok? Obviously we've got no idea how well our pot will be able to maintain the temperature so maybe just in case should we push it to 67?. Then I've read that people like to raise the temperature above 75 for 10 minutes to mash out after the 60 or 90 minutes has finished?
I do a 90 mash which includes any time it takes to get between step temps. I'd reccomend a 90 min one for your first few as its likely that you are gonna get closer to your target predictions. you may find later down the track that you can get my with 60 min ones or somewhere in between.
I thought that in general BIAB doesn't need a sparge but I also read that people are putting the bag into a container and running a couple of litres of hot water over it for a quick sparge then adding that to the wort before boiling. Would I then subtract this amount of sparge water from the original pre boil volume?
yep spot on, if you wanna do a sparge step just withold say 5-6L of water from your pash vol. Once you rise the bag and squeeze (or not - but thats a whole other debate) drop it into the 5-6L you reserved and give it a good mix with your spoon/paddle/paint stirrer. raise it out and drain as you have before. then add the runnings to the boil kettle. I'd say shoot for a sparge water temp of about 78. I dont think the actual temp is super critical s you aren't hoping to foster enzymic activity like you are in the mash. someone more pro can comment here...
We'll be doing no chill so I'm a bit confused about cube hopping. So in general with cube hopping you forget the late hop additions and just throw them in the cube?
I subtract 15 minutes off the boil time for all my hops if in cubing (i do both depending on what i'm brewing. if the brew doesn't have any hops after 15 min i usually nochill). so for your recipe id add your chinook 15min from the end and cube hop your citra. I'd use some sort of floc too - whirlfloc or koppafloc. add it 10 or so min from the end of the boil.
If that's the case would I just be doing a 60 minute boil then adding the chinook at 30 and then throw the citra in the cube? Then add the hot wort after whirlpooling and letting it sit for 10 minutes or so?
Once you add the wort to the cube, you should squeeze the air out. i find it easiest to place it next to a wall and push against it with your knee. when the liquid is close to over flowing, screw the cap on tightly. lay it on its side for a while (at least 10 min) and then stand it upright again. this helps make sure the entire vessel is heat sanitied.
Oh and make sure - if you have a tap on the cube it is closed before you transfer.

Hope that helps. have fun with your first!

 

[Bribie G]

Two useful pieces of kit are:





Paint stirrers are available from dedicated paint stores and are great for pumping the mash up and down while raising to mashout, doing stepped mashes, or generally just giving the mash a fright.

 

[BrewedCrudeandBitter]

Look at you all. You're a credit to yourselves and this entire organisation.

 

[Alex.Tas]

Paint stirrers are available from dedicated paint stores and are great for pumping the mash up and down while raising to mashout, doing stepped mashes, or generally just giving the mash a fright.

+1 to Bribies suggestion of the paint stirrer. I've only recently started ag (7 brews) and got that tip from his thread.
it does a great job of getting the grain up and about during the mash.
Speaking of which, i usually like to give my mash a decent stir a few times throughout the process. it helps to distribute the heat more evenly though the pot. I check the temp when i'm doing this and if needed i'll give it some power to maintain the ideal mash temp.

 

[ianh]

One thing I do is put the hops in bags which I remove at the end of the boil, saves me worrying about the effects of no chill. I also usually dry hop in the fermenter after FG is reached.

Have fun with your first.

 

[Alex.Tas]

Also having a pulley system to help you drain the bag helps. saves you having to hang onto a hot bag for ages. if you increase your batch size - which you can easily do with your pot, you may want a double pulley.

 

[stm]

Seen as you have a big pot, I would suggest following the KISS principle and not setting water aside for rinsing (sparging). Just mash at your desired mash temp for 90 min in full volume (as suggested above, insulation like a doona or couple of sleeping bags over the pot), then ramp up the temp to mash out temp (about 76 degrees) while stirring. Don't forget you have to have put Bribie's roasting rack in your pot to start with to keep the bag off the element.

Pull the bag out once you hit 76, but keep the element on to continue the ramp up to boiling. Let the bag drain in a separate container and give it a bit of a squeeze, then return that wort into the pot. Simple.

 

[stm]

One thing I do is put the hops in bags which I remove at the end of the boil, saves me worrying about the effects of no chill. I also usually dry hop in the fermenter after FG is reached.

You'll still get the extra bittering effect with no-chill even if you pull the hop bag on flame-out, because the resins have been immediately dissolved into the wort. It's the resins in the wort (not the hop remains in the bag) that continue to isomerize into bitterness post-FO.

 

[Alex.Tas]

You'll still get the extra bittering effect with no-chill even if you pull the hop bag on flame-out, because the resins have been immediately dissolved into the wort. It's the resins in the wort (not the hop remains in the bag) that continue to isomerize into bitterness post-FO.

Thats an interesting point. I've consindered it a bit recently.
Have you got a reference for that? I'm not doubting you- i would just like to read a bit more about that.

Also agree with IanH. go for it with dry hopping. both of your hops you have used will work well as a dry hop. depending on how hoppy you like your pale ales, go with 2-4g/l i reckon.
I dont bother using a hop bag for dry hopping.

 

[contrarian]

Plenty of good tips here already and very little to add.

For first brew keep it as simple as possible and focus more on measuring the variables rather than trying to control them. Aim for a mash somewhere between 60 and 70 degrees and measure at the beginning and end of mash, I wouldn't bother trying to heat during the mash.

Check your gravity before the boil and remember, if you are using a hydrometer, to consider the temperature of the wort. Take another gravity reading post boil.

Try to measure volume of strike water (what you start with), post mash volume and post boil volume as this will help you get an idea of how much water you lose to grain absorption and boil off. I have a 70L pot from craftbrewer and use a metal ruler to measure volume, it works out at about 1.6L/cm for my pot which has a 45cm diameter as a bit of a guide.

These measurements will help you dial in your equipement which will increase your consistency over time.

For the fisrt few brews don't worry too much about it, just measure, record and adjust until you are hitting your targets. You will make beer and it will be the best beer you have ever made.

 

[BrewedCrudeandBitter]

Thanks heaps for the help.

Yep I've got the same pot and it looks like it's the same for me.

Approximately how much should my initial water volume be do you reckon?

 

[contrarian]

It's a pleasure mate, most of us wouldn't be brewing without the assitance of others!

I have made a few assumptions in calculating your strike water. One is a target OG of 1.045 which is a reasonable target for a pale ale. The second is a 60 minute boil.
Based on those you should start with about 32L of water to end up with 20L into the cube. One thing I would add though is that if you have a 20L cube it will probably hold 2-3L more than that so it might be easier to aim for 25L and have a full cube with a bit left over than wind up trying to squeeze air out of the cube.

 

[BrewedCrudeandBitter]

Excellent, thanks!

 

[barabool]

LOL - I liked your Newstead Brewing review -

http://www.brewedcrudeandbitter.com/drink-it-now-dummy/2014/9/18/just-drink-it-dummy-vol-9-newstead-brewing-co-two-to-the-valley-ipa

"As such, I can only recommend drinking this IPA if you’re celebrating the opening of your own dinosaur themed hotel resort or the successful sale of your mortal soul to Lucifer the Prince of Darkness."

Laughed out Loud for real with that one.

 

[BrewedCrudeandBitter]

Cheers, cobber. It's my best work.

 

[BrewedCrudeandBitter]

Just a quick update, we brewed on Sunday arvo/night and there wasn't too many cock ups. I think...

Firstly, I forgot to take the gravity pre boil and then I took a gravity reading post boil and was very disappointed to see that it was 1.028 or so but then I remembered about the temperature adjustment for the hydrometer so I'd estimate that it's around 1.050 which is what I was expecting.

Does anyone find that if they are using a temperature probe among the grain in the bag that it seems to give misleadingly low temperatures? We threw the grain in when the temperature was just over 69, put the lid on and wrapped her up in a blanket and then checked after half an hour and the temperature was down to 64 which seemed way worse than I was expecting. Anyway, after about 75 minutes the temperature apparently was down to about 60 so I decided to turn the element back on and just mash out. But when I removed the grain bag and checked the temp the wort was way hotter than I thought. Obviously I'll double check on the next batch but it seemed strange to me.

In any event, I've got about 22 litres of wort sitting in a cube in my study until I sort the fermenting fridge out.

 

[BrewedCrudeandBitter]

Oh and also it was a bit disappointing to see that it doesn't look like my element can get a good rolling boil on the go. There's movement but nothing like I was hoping.

 

[1974Alby]

when you throw in the grain at 69, you will drop a couple of degrees...dependant on grain weight and temp. I usually aim to dough in at 69, which gives me a initial mash temp of 66.5 with about 5kg of grain stored at room temp. In winter I need to start at 70-71 as the grain is colder and knocks the temp of the mash back more.

Did you stir up you mash when taking the temp reading? I typically lose about 2 degrees over an hour mash..but think a lot of the heat is trapped in the grains, as the temp at mash out (taken using a digital thermometer about 3cm below the surface) does noticeably rise by a couple of degrees once I give the grain a good stir.