All Grain - is it substantially better beer?

[Thomas Wood]

I'm very close to making the jump from Extract kits to all grain, but I am still not wholly convinced that the cost (will be buying a Robobrew) and the time sink of a brew day is worth it.

I can knock over a perfectly adequate and tasty extract brew day in an hour after work. Will spending 5+ hours using a robobrew (and the cost in buying one) really make beer that is chalk and cheese better and completely justifies the time/cost?

This is probably a really dumb and obvious question to most, but I really want to be sure as I am quite happy with the beers I have been making recently.

I already have a kegerator, 3x kegs and a fermentation fridge, so this is really the last jump for me. Cheers

 

[Nullnvoid]

If you are happy with what you are producing then why change? It sounds like you have it all sorted!

I jumped into all grain and I find the time fairly therapeutic (between running around after the kids) but it's each to their own.

I have a mate who just does fresh wort kits and he is happy doing that.

My advice only

 

[Tex083]

I enjoy the beers I make as an all grain brewer. I only used kit and kilo before and the difference is huge.
If you are wondering maybe do a couple of partial mashed, see if the beer quality improves to your taste.
Maybe brew one of your extract brews on a friends all grain system and see if you like it. Or try a fresh work kit from the LHBS that is an all grain brew done for you

 

[Hpal]

Agree, Fresh Wort Kits are the go. I brew AG but can see the attraction in fresh kits, close to all grain quality with little effort or equipment or time investment, probably quicker than extract kits, you can't go wrong!

 

[altone]

Before Xmas I would have jumped in and said yes it's way better, but due to lack of time I've done a couple of kits and bits and am happy with the results.

Sure, all grain gives you way more options in creating a unique brew, but if you just want a decent pale ale and you're happy with what you're doing now, well.....

Having said that, once I have some time again I'll be back to all grain.

 

[pnorkle]

Like most, I started out with K&K, but wasn't overly happy with the results - sure, most of them were "ok," but I figured I could do better. So I tried my hand at unhopped extract, (which I think is what you're referring to?) adding my own hops & what have you, it lengthened the brew day somewhat, but the results were far better - something I was really happy with. But, me being me, and not wanting to do things by half measures, went all-grain.

Of course, now I'm looking at around a 5 hour brew day, and I've spent substantial funds getting to the point I'm now at (and I still have a long way to go, only recently starting to dabble in water additions, etc.) But I think it's worth it. As someone above has said, you could borrow someone else's gear to get a feel for it, or as many have done with excellent results, you could try BIAB along with no-chill - it would substantially reduce the costs involved in getting set up.

Anyway. That's my .03c worth.

 

[dibbz]

k&k < unhopped extract < fwk < biab < gf/3v < fresh jammers

 

[Markbeer]

Before you buy any gear really have a think about the 5 hour brew day for a single batch.

I don't think it's worth it for one keg's worth. 5 hours is a lot of time for 2 cases.

I do a 75 litre all grain batch. Takes 6 or even 7 hours, but for me 4 kegs in one day is worth the time.

As for the taste, you get accustomed to a certain quality. I am more often than not dissatisfied with commercial or micro beers. But if you are happy why change.

All grain equipment really isn't that dear, but the space to store everything becomes an issue.

I'm very close to making the jump from Extract kits to all grain, but I am still not wholly convinced that the cost (will be buying a Robobrew) and the time sink of a brew day is worth it.

I can knock over a perfectly adequate and tasty extract brew day in an hour after work. Will spending 5+ hours using a robobrew (and the cost in buying one) really make beer that is chalk and cheese better and completely justifies the time/cost?

This is probably a really dumb and obvious question to most, but I really want to be sure as I am quite happy with the beers I have been making recently.

I already have a kegerator, 3x kegs and a fermentation fridge, so this is really the last jump for me. Cheers

 

[brewermp]

Taste is subjective. As others have said if you are enjoying your beer then why change.

What I have learnt is that if you change your process be ready to have some headaches and potentially bad beer whilst you learn the new skill.

I have a robobrew and enjoy brewing in it. But have had to learn how to use it effectively.

Then comes the fun of getting a mill crushing your grain well lol.

Would I do it again... He’ll yeah I like the time away from the screen so a 4hr day including cleanup is enjoyable for me. There is also this pride is saying I went from grain to glass [emoji846]

 

[ABG]

@Thomas Wood I was in pretty much the same position that you're in right now last year. I bought a R3 and haven't regretted it for a second.

As others have said, you can buy fresh wort kits from your LHBS to see how much difference there is in quality - try one and you can let your taste buds decide.

Like all things, there are pros and cons. Going AG is going to mean a lot of your spare time is going to vanish. It's way more time consuming. Plus there's the smell factor - my partner turns her nose up every time I brew and I'm brewing in a garage 2 floors below our apartment.

The biggest drag without a doubt, is having to clean all of your gear at the end of a brew day. I'm normally pretty knackered by the end of a brew day and having to clean up my gear sucks - there's no other way to put it.

On the plus side, for me a brew day becomes a social event as all my neighbours stick their head in to say g'day and see what the latest brew is. I normally wash my cars while the mash is going. I've got a decent gym in my garage as well, so I get to knock out a workout while the boil is going.

For me, the biggest benefit of AG brewing is the ability to control exactly what you want. I equate it to cooking. You can make a great curry from a curry paste. You can also make a great curry starting from scratch using your own spices. For some people (including me), the extra time and effort of selecting and buying your own spices, grinding them on a mortar and pestle and making your own curry is totally worthwhile. It's the ability to make small tweaks to suit your own taste buds that's the key factor for me, but everyone is different as are their circumstances.

Regardless of whether you continue using K&K or switch to AG, you'll still be making great beer.

 

[Thomas Wood]

Thanks everyone for the replies, I appreciate it. I have tried a FWK in the past and I didn't like it that much, but I think it was my taste buds as a few of my mates thought it was my best beer yet (at the time) haha. Maybe I should try another. I also don't have any mates who homebrew (yet).

As I enjoy brewing as it is, I guess spending those extra hours really crafting down on a recipe or making something from the Brew Dog PDF is starting to sound more appealing to me.

@ABG it's good to hear your thoughts as someone who was in the same position.

I've got a decent gym in my garage as well, so I get to knock out a workout while the boil is going.

I have a good home gym as well, so being able to occupy myself close to the brew is not a bad idea!

I don't think it's worth it for one keg's worth. 5 hours is a lot of time for 2 cases.

I do a 75 litre all grain batch. Takes 6 or even 7 hours, but for me 4 kegs in one day is worth the time.

Yeh this was the biggest thing for me, but I really don't think I have the space for such a large system. None of my house mates drink beer as it is.

I'm 90% convinced I am going to get a Robobrew (or another system) in the next couple of months. I just wanted to get that extra push and thoughts from some people.

Cheers.

 

[shacked]

What sort of beer do you like to make? If you are keen on hop forward beers then perhaps staying with extract + steeping grains might be the play!

If you are looking to make Belgian styles, Hefe, Rye Beers and German styles (for example) all grain is really the only way to go. Extract doesn't allow you to control mash temp (which impacts the types of sugar that you extract from the grain) or readily control the proportionate quantities of base malt (so you might want to make a wheat beer that is 80% wheat malt; most extract is around the 50% mark, so that's going to be hard to do).

You can always start with a stove top mini-mash. Mash a few kilos of malt in a pot 'brew in a bag' style and use pale extract to get to your desired gravity. This will give you a very low cost opportunity to give the principles and process of all grain brewing a go.

I suggest you look around the Newcastle area for a homebrew club and go an meet some local homebrewers. They can help you with system choice, recipes etc.

Also, remember as brewers all we do is make hop flavored sugar. It is the yeast that turns all that into delicious beer. Focus on sanitation, temp control and yeast health regardless of how the sugar is produced in the first instance.

 

[mongey]

I am 10 batches deep into the swap to AG after 4 or so years or extracts and kits

It is a much bigger time sink but I enjoy the process and I do think the beers I’m
Making are better overall. I worked as a cook for a couple years and really enjoy cooking so get satisfaction from. starting the process from Scratch. So the time sink is worth it to
Me.

 

[pcmfisher]

I think its a time thing and also what type of beers you like.
You can make perfectly acceptable bitter, hoppy beers with unbittered extract. Or maybe even kits if your taste isn't too particular. But for low body, low bittered, low hop styles I reckon grain brewing is the only way to go.

 

[5teve]

AG may be a 5 hour brew day, but it's not like you're actually physically spending 5 hours nonstop molly coddling it along.

Realistically its more something like :
- Fill with strike water
- Have a beer, or go do something else for 20 mins while waiting for strike temp
- Mash in, stir etc
- Have a couple beers, or go do something else for 60-90 mins whatever while it mashes
- Mast out / sparge / etc
- Have a beer, or go do something else 20 mins while waiting to reach boil, or clean mash pipe / mash tun etc
- Periodically add hop additions, whirfloc etc
- Have a couple beers, or go do something else for most of the boil 60-90 min whatever when not making additions
- Whirlpool
- Have a beer, or go do something else / start cleaning stuff / prepare fermenter etc
- Cube if no-chillin', or chill and transfer to fermenter and pitch
- Clean up

If you're boiling and hopping unhopped extract you're already doing half the steps as it is, just with AG it's spread over 5 hours rather than 1 and there's a bit more work and bit more cleaning.

 

[Tony121]

Also, remember as brewers all we do is make hop flavored sugar. It is the yeast that turns all that into delicious beer. Focus on sanitation, temp control and yeast health regardless of how the sugar is produced in the first instance.

100%

If you don’t look after the yeast it doesn’t matter which way you go.

 

[JDW81]

I'm very close to making the jump from Extract kits to all grain, but I am still not wholly convinced that the cost (will be buying a Robobrew) and the time sink of a brew day is worth it.

You don't have to spend thousands on flash gear to make excellent all grain beer. Many an award winning beer has been made with nothing more than an urn, a large bag and a cube to transfer the wort into.

My first AG system cost about $150 all up, and made some of my best brews with it.

Things like robobrew/braumeister/grainfather are all good bits of kit, but they don't make better all grain beer (or are necessarily more time efficient) than simple 1, 2 or 3 vessel systems. You are often also limited with size, which means you can only fill 1 keg at a time.

Does AG brewing make beer that is 100x better than kit beer? IMHO no (if you take care of sanitation, yeast population and temperature control) . The one thing AG brewing gives you over kits, extract and wort kits is flexibility to change recipes according to your taste.

Have you done any grain brewing on a friends system? Might be worthwhile trying to jump in on a few other brew days with grain brewers, to see if you like the process.

JD

 

[goatchop41]

k&k < unhopped extract < fwk < biab < gf/3v

What a load of bollocks that end part is...BIAB, GF/Guten/RB and 3V all make the exact same beer, of the exact same quality

 

[wide eyed and legless]

I really do try to ignore aggressive replies, and you have put up some good posts goatchop, but it is the yeast that makes the beer. If the OP is happy is what he is producing and to me it seems that time and space could be a problem, just keep doing what you are doing until in time he can go into all grain, or as others have suggested try out on some one elses rig.

 

[ben_sa]

I am guessing $ isn't an issue... One thing (not the #1 reason) that I love about AG brewing, is the cost. The main reason is tinkering with recipes, and making absolutely unique beers.

I buy sacks of base malt for $40 delivered (here in SA we do regular bulk buys). So that is $1.60 per kg. Also try to buy hops in bulk (but you would be buying hops already).

When I was extract brewing and buying hops in small amounts, it wasn't THAT much cheaper than buying megaswill tbh...