Ahb Wiki: The No-chiller Method / Using A Cube

[Thirsty Boy]

Cheers guys. Given that I'm just starting out AG, I might not worry for now, but I'll definitely keep it in mind for when I've gotten my technique running smoothly!

If you are just starting out and you haven't brewed with any other method than no-chill - you probably wont notice a difference. You will just notice that you do or don't like the bitterness level of certain recipes.

If you find that you always want to make an adjustment from the recipes you have found - just a little too bitter, might cut it back next time.. - then you need to adjust for your method ... whether it s no chill of not.

That's the trick - don't worry so much abut what you read, worry about what you taste. Your beers will start to really reflect your personal tastes after you have had time to brew and re-brew them. Anyone who is brewing a recipe for the first time, is nearly as in the dark as you are as a new brewer. All we have going for us is trends we have notice over multiple brews. The first crack at a recipe for even the most experienced AG brewer is still a great big pile of pot luck, tempered by experience.

And no advice you can get in electrons over the internet, can substitute for that experience.

I would subtract a few IBUs if you are using no-chill ... but to be honest, thats just the way it works for me. It might not for you. So you'll just have to give it a go.

TB

 

[troopa]

I totally agree with TBs last comment that its all about personal preference on what YOU like.
No matter how good a recipe is you will inevitably change the recipe slightly next time to to accommodate for your tastes
Just go with the recipe and adjust next time if flavors seem a little too bitter or sweet

Tom

 

[rude]

jeez so many beers to brew & drink & so little time.
Ive done 5 ags boy have I got a long way to go.
Mash high mash low still no chillen gotta try imersion probabley lead to plate chilling.
FWH ing, pellets, plugs, flowers, hop backs.
The yeasts how do you try all of them .
The combinations are unbelievable.
Anyway at the moment just trying to nail a pommy bitter for a house regular.
Bought a sack(25kg) of ale malt = 5 brews no chilled with my old 20 litre camping water jerry cans (plastic) but gotta buy one with the plastic still in for the tap as when it gets hot the thread after a few brews gets so hot it is hard to tighten up leaks.
no chilling is a great way to start AG ing thats for sure cheers cortez for the advice you have given me
to a cheap way of aging for starters.
Have seen some stainless jerrycans for sale at camping stores but the price is up there $150 I think but I recon that would be ok for no chilling as you could still push the sides in to get all the air out .
Only thinking of plastic leach here & saving water compared to chilling.
Still miss on the cold break though dont you?
Sorry for the ramble as I have had one of my 7.3% stuff up ales(measured the grain incorrectly but is drinking ok at the moment ) & I am jibbering a bit.
cheers all

 

[Thirsty Boy]

Even after more than a hundred brews ... I still feel the same.

re: cold break. No you dont miss out on cold break. It still happens in no-chill. Cold break happens when the wort is too cool for dissolved break material to stay in solution and it precipitates out. Exactly the same thing as chill haze ... which is just the coldest of cold break.

The speed at which you chill, doesn't make a whole heap of difference. Its the temperature of the wort, not how fast you get it there.

 

[chadjaja]

Just how do you transfer the near boiling wort into the cube if your boiler doesn't have a tap? Pouring would surely be too violent bring oxygen with it not to mention being a tad dangerous.

Is there a safe syphon option using specific hose etc?

 

[altone]

Just how do you transfer the near boiling wort into the cube if your boiler doesn't have a tap? Pouring would surely be too violent bring oxygen with it not to mention being a tad dangerous.

Is there a safe syphon option using specific hose etc?

Well you could always try a length of silicone hose with one of those stainless siphon hose tips.
Gryphonbrewing.com.au have them and I'm sure many other places - just noticed them there when ordering some yeasties.

I use the silicone hose on my kettle (but with a tap) to transfer wort - doesn't get too hot to hold.

 

[chadjaja]

Ahhh that looks the go! Thanks very much. Even if it does get warm its not hard to simply hold the hose with a pot holder but there will be minimal handling anyway transferring it to a cube. That syphon is great and solves that problem too on the cheap too. That hose aint cheapish though.

Problem solved!

 

[ausdb]

Just how do you transfer the near boiling wort into the cube if your boiler doesn't have a tap? Pouring would surely be too violent bring oxygen with it not to mention being a tad dangerous.

Is there a safe syphon option using specific hose etc?

A stainless racking cane with a stainless scrubby on the end and clear vinyl beverage tube works, the tubing gets all soft and flexible but still works ok.

 

[Scruffy]

My main question- would the first runnings, mashed at about 67c (153f) be hot enough to kill the nasties in the cube?

No.

But if you're just leaving it till the first lot is racked, you should be ok. Clean & sanitise...

Do you have a different plan (hops/adjuncts/sugars?) for the second lot?

I more or less end up wih two 23l cubes of boiled wort for the house bitter - so you just pour and pitch, no more boiling, I can keep the second cube for months... Dry hop in the secondary... Whatever your preference.

 

[chucke]

Oops.
I got to thinking about my idea, and the more I thought about it, the less sense it made... so I deleted it- without checking to see if there was a response. Sorry-

 

[KHB]

Just pitched a beer i no chilled 5 months ago! Interested to see if its the same as the one i made when it first got done.

Cheers

 

[Elbow]

Hi All,

I've done 5 or so, mainly ale's, etc with no problems. I've just bought 5kg of Weyermann to have a crack at a BIAB pilsner. I was informed that German malts are prone to DMS and as such should be chilled ASAP. This is not an option for me at the moment, I can only no-chill. The same person informed me that if i chilled a little bit (ice cubes in a laundry tub) to between 50-70 degrees and then transferred to a no chill cube that would be ok.

Does this sound right? I would have of thought it's one or the other?

 

[WarmBeer]

Hi All,

I've done 5 or so, mainly ale's, etc with no problems. I've just bought 5kg of Weyermann to have a crack at a BIAB pilsner. I was informed that German malts are prone to DMS and as such should be chilled ASAP. This is not an option for me at the moment, I can only no-chill. The same person informed me that if i chilled a little bit (ice cubes in a laundry tub) to between 50-70 degrees and then transferred to a no chill cube that would be ok.

Does this sound right? I would have of thought it's one or the other?

No-chill into a cube should be done as hot as possible. This way the cube itself, which may not be 100% sanitised, is in contact with high temperatures for an extended period of time (pasteurisation) which has a pretty good chance of killing off any nasties that manage to sidestep your standard sanitation regime.

It also has the benefit that as the wort "shrinks" due to cooling, it sucks in the sides of the cube. If you have managed to get a good seal on the cube and expelled most of your headspace, you can tell that there is no air getting into the cube, as the sides should remain slightly concave.

For the DMS part, sorry, can't help you, never brewed with that sort of grain. My understanding is that a 90 minute boil, without a lid, should drive off the precursors to DMS.

 

[Bribie G]

Hi All,

I've done 5 or so, mainly ale's, etc with no problems. I've just bought 5kg of Weyermann to have a crack at a BIAB pilsner. I was informed that German malts are prone to DMS and as such should be chilled ASAP. This is not an option for me at the moment, I can only no-chill. The same person informed me that if i chilled a little bit (ice cubes in a laundry tub) to between 50-70 degrees and then transferred to a no chill cube that would be ok.

Does this sound right? I would have of thought it's one or the other?

A 90 minute or even a two hour boil (as many Czech breweries do I believe) should fix any DMS problems. I've used Wey malts with no problems in that department, and I no chill exclusively. Just keep an eye on your boil volume, you may need to top up during the boil.

 

[argon]

A 90 minute or even a two hour boil (as many Czech breweries do I believe) should fix any DMS problems. I've used Wey malts with no problems in that department, and I no chill exclusively. Just keep an eye on your boil volume, you may need to top up during the boil.

After a few DMS problems of my own, i've come to the conclusion that boilding hard and long will get rid of the majority of DMS precursors... so go for that. Get a nice vigorous boil going and go for a minimum of 90 mins... that should sort it out.

IIRC Ross said that when he does no-chill he partially chills the wort to around 75C or so and then drains to the NC Cube. At those temps the nasties will still get knocked out, even if exposed to high temps for shorter periods of time. But for me... knowing my own ineptitude at proper sanitation (not evidence based just a general feeling that i'm reasonably half-arsed) i prefer to add the wort to the cube as hot as possible, thus ensuring it's killed of as much as possible.

 

[Elbow]

Cool, thanks for the replies guys. I'll do a 90 minute boil, maybe longer and hopefully that will do the trick. Just need to work out my hop additions now, supposed to do 10 minute and flame out additions. Anyone point me in the right direction? Pretty please!

 

[WarmBeer]

Cool, thanks for the replies guys. I'll do a 90 minute boil, maybe longer and hopefully that will do the trick. Just need to work out my hop additions now, supposed to do 10 minute and flame out additions. Anyone point me in the right direction? Pretty please!

The common wisdom is to move your late-addition hops back by about 15 minutes if you're going to no-chill.

In your instance, I would add your 10 minute hops at flameout/whirlpool, and add your flame-out hops directly into the cube (that's right, dry hops straight into the cube, pour your hot wort straight on top of them).

If you really want to get that aroma hop hit, have a search around for "tea hopping". Involves steeping the hops in a Bodum french press, and adding them to the fermenting beer at about day 4 of fermentation.

 

[argon]

The common wisdom is to move your late-addition hops back by about 15 minutes if you're going to no-chill.

In your instance, I would add your 10 minute hops at flameout/whirlpool, and add your flame-out hops directly into the cube (that's right, dry hops straight into the cube, pour your hot wort straight on top of them).

If you really want to get that aroma hop hit, have a search around for "tea hopping". Involves steeping the hops in a Bodum french press, and adding them to the fermenting beer at about day 4 of fermentation.

+1 for moving back all additions by 15 mins. or adjust the IBU accordingly if you have the sotware.
+1 also for cube hopping... gives great results

 

[Elbow]

Gracias!

I'll have a go at the the IBU's. Don't have s/w as yet, now might be the time! I think I've steeped before, using a coffee plunger then adding to secondary.

 

[aaronpetersen]

I was just reading another thread about using an Olive Oil fusti as a fermenter which lead me to wondering if you could use a 20L olive oil drum as a NC cube? I assume they're stainless. What are peoples thoughts, would they be alright?