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Ahb Wiki: The No-chiller Method / Using A Cube

Discussion in 'AHB Resources (Wiki Topics)' started by Cortez The Killer, 18/6/08.

 

  1. Cortez The Killer

    HeCameDancingAcrossTheWater

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    Posted 15/7/09
    How much lower?

    I've been making starters or repitching yeast cake and haven't worried about pitching temps

    But in clement Wollongong it doesn't get too cool in the garage any how

    You could use a heat belt / pad or bring the cube to a warmer part of the house a little while before you pitch

    But if you ensure you have a good amount of yeast it should be a problem

    Cheers
     
  2. geoffi

    Well-Known Member

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    Posted 15/7/09
    That's Fairlight NSW, right? I can't imagine the ambient temp there would be far off a decent pitching temp for an ale. If you've left it outside overnight it might cool down a bit, but nothing a few hours indoors wouldn't sort out.
     
  3. pdilley

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    Posted 16/7/09
    I think it was -1C this morning! Complete turbo no-chill outdoors :p

    If I only didn't have work. I could brew all day and chill all night!



    Did I hear incorrectly, are some people putting taps on the no-chill cubes and then fermenting in them?


    Cheers,
    Brewer Pete
     
  4. Cortez The Killer

    HeCameDancingAcrossTheWater

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    Posted 16/7/09
    I've had taps on my cubes for a long while - starting to move away from then due to leaks

    But haven't heard of anyone fermenting in the same cube - there wouldn't be the room - and it increases the risk of infection imho

    Cheers


     
  5. hando

    Well-Known Member

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    Posted 16/7/09
    Hey extra! welcome to the forum.

    You could take it to bed with you, it'll be right for pitching in the morning.
    :beerbang:
     
  6. Thirsty Boy

    ICB - tight shorts and poor attitude. Fuck yeah!

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    Posted 17/7/09
    The wort in the cube is not delicate or temperature sensitive like it would be if you had pitched yeast already - you can just point a fan heater at the cube till it warms up. If it gets too warm... just let it cool down again.

    TB
     
  7. Jase

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    Posted 17/7/09
    Wish I read this yesterday. Decided to ferment my 1st AG, made on Tuesday. Cube sitting in garage for two days. Aerated wort into fermenter, pitched Safale S-04, and put the fermenter in fermenting fridge, hooked up the thermometer and was shocked to see 11 degrees :unsure:

    The fermenter has been wrapped in a blanket since 9pm last night,in the lounge room and is now up to 16 degrees and still no activity. Starting to get worried. :(

    Not too sure whether to wait a bit longer to see if there is activity or pitch another yeast????

    Cheers,
    Jase

    Sorry just realised slightly off topic!!! :ph34r:
     
  8. MCT

    Beer Nerd

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    Posted 17/7/09
    :icon_offtopic: But you'll be right Jase, the cold temps won't hurt the yeast. Give it another 24 hours and try to get it to 18c.
     
  9. extra-cheese

    Member

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    Posted 19/7/09

    Thanks guys, this forum is awesome, very informative.

    cheers,
    brad
     
  10. Nostalgia

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    Posted 24/7/09
    Good morning! I hope you don't mind a fella from the 'States joining in the discussion here.

    I've been reading the no-chill threads with quite a bit of interest. I recently grabbed one of these 7-gallon HDPE containers and am excited to try my first no-chill next week.

    I had a question about headspace in the vessel: I've been reading that it is recommended to purge the headspace of air before sealing if I'm planning to store the wort for longer than a few days. Is there any reasoning behind this? It seems like the right thing to do, but I'm just curious if there's any science behind it.

    We're not worried about HSA, and it's pre-pitching so the yeast should scrub any oxygen out during fermentation. Is there another issue I'm missing?

    Thanks,

    -Joe
     
  11. MCT

    Beer Nerd

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    Posted 24/7/09
    That's a good question, I would've thought that sanitisation is one issue, although if the headspace is not huge (ie. more than 5%), it would probably be pasteurized by the heat from the wort.

    I think that if storing from a long time, you would want to get rid of as much oxygen as possible, if not you are increasing your chances of oxidation, HSA or otherwise, big time.

    Myself, it's not a big issue to source cubes of an appropriate volume. A simple towel covered knee to a boiling hot cube at an angle is usually enough to purge all cubes of worries.
     
  12. Nostalgia

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    Posted 24/7/09
    Thanks for the reply! I agree, sanitation shouldn't be an issue. I'm guessing the oxidation is the big reason for it. That's really why I asked, because I thought we wanted oxygenation pre-fermentation.

    I also agree it's not a big deal to purge the air. I'm just a curious mind, I guess :)

    -Joe
     
  13. Thirsty Boy

    ICB - tight shorts and poor attitude. Fuck yeah!

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    Posted 25/7/09
    Squeezing the air out of the headspace is about preventing oxidation of the wort - in the circumstance of an NC cube .. its all going to be the equivalent of HSA. It will just happen faster when things are actually hot. The yeast scavenging oxygen is beside the point, we are talking about oxidation happening before the pitch - to the wort itself. Most likely is that, just like regular HSA, it wont result in noticable off flavours in and of itself - but rather it will "use up" some of the wort's existing anti oxidant properties, leaving it more vulnerable to regular old oxidation and pre-mature aging once its packaged.

    There is perhaps a mild argument around sanitation and bugs in the airspace not being killed - I find that argument less compelling assuming as said above that you dont have a stupidly large headspace.

    I squeeze out the air in my NC cubes for the oxidation reason -- BUT -- there are quite a few people, and I believe most of the commercial hot packed fresh wort kits too, that don't purge or squeeze out the airspace. So its not like its a no arguments situation.

    I would be concerned if you had a "big" headspace ... but I wouldn't sweat it too much if its only an inch or so and you are going to use the wort within a month. Don't go shaking the damn thing up while its hot or anything though. Treat ti gently and you will be fine either way.

    TB
     
  14. RdeVjun

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    Posted 25/7/09
    Yes Pete, sorry for the slow follow up as I've just spotted your query, but, yeah I'll put my hand up to that. Sometimes I do ferment directly in the NC cube and it seems to work fairly well, no major problems so far. There's various opinions on the matter, I haven't had any disasters with it so I continue to do it.
    It just requires an incompletely- filled NC (i.e. a cube with with a fair headspace) and a sturdy tap- although the tap can be fitted afterwards when its cooled if sanitation is up to scratch.

    Pluses: No transfer into a fermenter, so one less container to prepare/ clean (plus cleaning the now- dirty cube although it has to be cleaned after the show is over, see below) and of course risk infection when transferring the un-inoculated wort out of the NC cube. Aeration is very easy, just open it up to let some fresh air in, shake it up or roll across the floor, although getting fresh air into it is not easy and I wonder about the oxygenation efficiency with smaller volumes of air. Efficient use of space in fermenting fridge- I can fit four cubes in some of my fridges, all (past & present) will only take a maximum of two cylindricals.

    Minuses: Depending upon boil equipment/ method, it can be fermenting on break material/hop debris that would be left behind when transferring a NC cube into a fermenter. Taps can pop out or be knocked off, this hasn't happened to me though. Cleaning the high water mark (krausen) can be difficult, but I load with detergent and soak overnight, pop a dishcloth in then give it a vigorous shake, I don't seem to get much muck in the handle thankfully.

    Fermenting in a cube suits my main method of BIAB in a 19L stockpot rather well, I just accept that for AG batches they're slightly smaller, while full- sized (21-23L) partials (2/3 grain, 1/3 extract top up) can fit in a 25L cube but a vigorous ferment and high krausen will make a mess. I've used a 15L cube as well, for small batches they work just as well. An airlock can be used or, as I do nowadays, just a small square of clingfilm and a rubber band. I still use my cylindrical fermenters though, I figured that as I was often transferring into a cube for secondary that it might work for primary as well and, as is said with the proof of the pudding etc- I'm enjoying the product of this adapted process right now!

    For sure, there would be other +/-es to this process, and I'm always open to discussing methods so will happily float this up for scrutiny. AFAIK though, yeast don't seem to notice the different- shaped primary fermenter, which, the above aside, is what it really boils down to...

    Anyway, so far, so good, here's a link to a previous discussion. My 2c...
     
  15. ///

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    Posted 25/7/09
    Just seeing this ... been a while since looking at this thread ...

    * Headspace - keep to a minimum. The HDPE cubes does overtime allow oxygen egress, as i have been advised. I am sitting next to a former industrial chemist who helped developed a lot of plastics with ICI in the 60's/70's .... but he is 'watching the footy' with his eyes closed and will check later on over dinner.

    * Pitch temps - it is good to pitch a few degree's lower. In our 2400l tanks at work we cant physically see the wort, so have to use wort pH drop or a rise in tank temp as indicators of fermentation start.

    Scotty
     
  16. The Mad Hopper

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    Posted 6/8/09
    Do you need to adjust late hops additions when using no chill?
     
  17. clean brewer

    Obsessed Home Brewer

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    Posted 6/8/09
    I do.... :icon_cheers:
     
  18. Gavo

    Dogwood Brews

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    Posted 6/8/09

    I have started doing the same and will continue to do so. Even though I whirlpool and leave most of the hop material behind I feel there is still a need to adjust for no-chill. For me this adjustment is a couple of IBU's.


    Gavo.
     
  19. buttersd70

    Beerbelly's bitch :)

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    Posted 6/8/09
    I don't. Having said that, it's rare that I go >0.75g/L on the late hops anyway.
     
  20. The Mad Hopper

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    Posted 6/8/09
    Cheers guys. Given that I'm just starting out AG, I might not worry for now, but I'll definitely keep it in mind for when I've gotten my technique running smoothly!
     

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