Aeration during "whirlpool"

[mtb]

I've used this method for months and it seems to work well enough, just wanting to confirm I'm not doing anything heinous to my beer.

I chuck in my flameout hops at 60C, turn off the water to the immersion chiller, and let my recirculation pump "whirlpool" the wort for 20min while maintaining a steady temp. I use quotation marks on whirlpool because with the IC in the pot i'm not really achieving the desired outcome of the whirlpool (trub cone in middle of the pot) and I'm okay with that if it means I aerate without shaking the bejesus out of the fermenter.

Basically I'm aerating the wort by splashing it in - see that the outlet hose is slightly above the wort level. Anyone got any pointers / suggestions / warnings in using this method? Seems fairly effective.

 

[manticle]

You're aerating at 60 degrees?

At that temp, you may be encouraging trans-2-nonenal production, a component of hot side aeration that leads to accelerated staling.

You may not have noticed any staling flavours, in which case it may not need to concern you but if you ever do notice it, that may be a contributing factor.

Generally good practice to aerate much closer to pitching temp if you can.

 

[Matplat]

You could achieve the same goal, minus HSA risk, by doing the exact same once you have cooled further. It would mean an extra step in the process as you would probably still want to put your flameout hops in at 60.

It's a good idea that I hadn't thought of though, and easy for me to do until I can cough up for a proper O2 kit.

 

[goatchop41]

You could achieve the same goal, minus HSA risk, by doing the exact same once you have cooled further. It would mean an extra step in the process as you would probably still want to put your flameout hops in at 60.

It's a good idea that I hadn't thought of though, and easy for me to do until I can cough up for a proper O2 kit.

Just as easy is a paint stirrer on the end of a drill. Give it a spin for a couple of mins in the wort after pitching your yeast and you'll apparently get 7-8ppm of O2 in there. It's helped the two batches that I've done it with yake off like rockets within 4-6 hours (with dry yeast)

 

[Wall]

When I chill (usually cube nowadays) I use exactly the same technique mtb but keep the hose submerged then lift it when I pull the chiller to avoid HSA issues and get a good whirlpool.
Leave it for a few minutes to splash so the outlets jetting around the side of the pot.
Seems to aerate the wort well.

I've cut a hole in the edge of my pot lid so I can cover the cold wort but can just rest the lid on the hose easily enough.

 

[mtb]

Sounds good. I was a bit worried about HSA but figured 60C was low enough - perhaps not. I'll leave the hose in until 40C.

 

[manticle]

You need to get below 30 from memory for it to be utterly non issue.

 

[mtb]

I'll start at 40C - only because starting at 30C would mean either a) longer time before pitching or b) reduced whirlpool time

 

[huez]

Weren't you having staling/oxidation issues recently?

 

[mtb]

Yeah, that turned out to be a separate issue. I was using sodium perc in my kegs to clean (which is fine) and sanitise (not so fine). The oxygen created by the residue was causing oxidisation.

 

[RobB]

I'm not sure you're actually doing much oxygenating. At 20 degrees you can dissolve about 8ppm of oxygen into your wort; at 60 degrees it's more like 3ppm.

You're probably getting more oxygen into your wort during the last five degrees of chilling than you are during your whirlpool.

 

[mtb]

That's a good point Malty. Best adopt a secondary step at 25C where I pull out the immersion chiller and whirlpool properly - while aerating at the same time

 

[manticle]

Yeah, that turned out to be a separate issue. I was using sodium perc in my kegs to clean (which is fine) and sanitise (not so fine). The oxygen created by the residue was causing oxidisation.

You're certain that was the issue and is now totally sorted?

 

[Matplat]

Just as easy is a paint stirrer on the end of a drill. Give it a spin for a couple of mins in the wort after pitching your yeast and you'll apparently get 7-8ppm of O2 in there. It's helped the two batches that I've done it with yake off like rockets within 4-6 hours (with dry yeast)

Yeah, but doing it this way, I dont need to set up and sanitise any other equipment than I already have....

 

[huez]

I'd be interested in hearing if you still have oxidation issues since moving away from using sodium perc as a santiser. Maybe Manticle is onto something with hot side aeration, doesn't seem like something us home brewers should worry about though. Experiment and let us know! Borrow someones oxy kit next brew day??

 

[mtb]

You're certain that was the issue and is now totally sorted?

I'm certain enough - I haven't had nearly the same level of oxidised flavour issues I had before

 

[stewy]

2 things I cannot stand; negative effects of hot side aeration & stepping in unicorn ****

 

[mtb]

What's the positive side of hot side aeration?

..and what's the negative side of stepping in unicorn ****? I can only assume it'd taste like nutella

 

[stewy]

There is as much evidence of HSA causing any negative effects in beer as there is the existence of unicorns

 

[Danscraftbeer]

Is there any credit for using anti oxidant in your mash? Apart from what I have heard from Charlie Papazian.
I will use a stick of Cinnamon (broken into pieces, crushed a little) added to the mash.
I think maybe, . some of my best beers I've checked back on the notes and I added that to the mash. Sometimes I forget to..