Aabc And Subordinate State Competition Rules

[Barley Belly]

It's black and white.

When you choose to do a hobby or sport or occupation commercially and or professionally you are no longer an amateur.

It's an amateur competition.

End of story.

 

[schooey]

Looks black and red to me...

and next time I want to make something to read like gospel, I must remember that big-ass font trick...

 

[Fourstar]

It's black and white.
When you choose to do a hobby or sport or occupation commercially and or professionally you are no longer an amateur.
It's an amateur competition.
End of story.

Here is another spin on it.

"Judy" owns a cake decorating and bread making store. She sells flour kits and sour dough starters SHE cultured and cake decorating kits with pre-made icing decorations/cake toppers she made by hand.

As she owns a store that sells the above:

Should Judy be allowed to enter an amateur artisan bread making competition?
Should be she allowed to enter an amateur cake decorating competition?

Judy is a hobbyist who owns a store that sells product for people to consume, some of which she makes herself. because she makes some of her product by hand, although with no formal qualifications, does that immediately put her into the same category as Adriano Zumbo or the blokes at your local artisan bakery?

I'd hope not.

 

[Budron]

A professional is someone who gets paid for what they do.

If what they do is make cakes or brew beer or whatever, they are no longer an amateur.

If there are amateur competitions, I guess they are only meant for amateurs.

You can't have you cake and eat it too.

 

[bconnery]

It's black and white.

When you choose to do a hobby or sport or occupation commercially and or professionally you are no longer an amateur.

It's an amateur competition.

End of story.

I suggest you read the rules.
It's there in black and white (and no red at all)

D3. Amateur Brews. The name of the competition is the Australian AMATEUR BREWING
Championship. This indicates the competition is for amateur brews and not for commercial
beers. For many years there was no rule on this issue. The competition name was commonly
interpreted to mean that it was restricted to amateur brewers (rather than amateur brews)
and not open to professional brewers. An issue arose occasionally when a homebrewer turned
professional. Depending on the state, they were sometimes told they could not enter,
sometimes they chose not to enter, and sometimes they were allowed to enter their
homebrewed beers. This rule seeks to clarify the issue by referring to the beer itself. It
recognises that when a professional brewer goes home from work and brews non-commercial
beer as an amateur, then the beers they produce should be considered to be amateur brews."

So, unless the rule changes, you are wrong. Black and white.

 

[manticle]

You can't have you cake and eat it too.

What's the point of cake if you can't eat it?

 

[Budron]

Usain Bolt running in the special Olympics with no shoes on is still Usain Bolt.

 

[Barley Belly]

Touche'

I wonder though, did the said professional brewer go home from work and brew non-commercial beer as an amateur or was any part of the brewing process conducted on his professional work premises?

professional brewer goes home from work and brews non-commercial
beer as an amateur, then the beers they produce should be considered to be amateur brews."

 

[Budron]

Are we saying the quality of the brew is more a reflection on the gear used, rather than the brewer?

 

[Lord Raja Goomba I]

<snip> does that immediately put her into the same category as Adriano Zumbo or the blokes at your local artisan bakery?

I'd hope not.

Nope - she has hair, Adriano Zumbo doesn't. She's not on telly, Adriano Zumbo is (and of course, you can believe everything on telly!).



Goomba

PS. Following this debate enthusiastically. The way I'm seeing it, "who is an amateur brewer" is the fundamental issue at hand. Therefore who should be allowed to enter, based on that premise.

Though I probably agree with the sentiment that amateurs should be up against commercials for the best beer (especially in the sense of demonstrating that homebrew does not equal trough water bootleg nasties), that's not the premise, therefore the idea shouldn't be entertained, unless we are willing to say AABC can throw the rule book out on Amateur and let's open up the comp. Therefore the "Ross" issue that originally precipitated this debate would cease to be an issue and we re-establish the comp as an open brewing comp for aussie craft brewing.

 

[loikar]

Wow....

just.... Wow....

Who would have thought that 4 ingredients and temperature control could be so full on!
I mean, I get the whole hobby and competition thing, but really?, isn't it supposed to be a fun thing?
It's only beer after all....it's not like someone just threw up on your daughter because she's ugly.... it's just beer...

 

[SpillsMostOfIt]

It's only beer after all....it's not like someone just threw up on your daughter because she's ugly.... it's just beer...

But they did... and they said it was my fault because of all my beer they drank.

 

[Silo Ted]

Why was a new thread even necesarry at 1.51pm is beyond me, when this pretty much reflects the same elements of another thread. Waste of ******* time.


It's pretty ******* simple really.


This is the State Amateur Brewing Competition. Are you:

A: An Amateur Brewer
B: A Professional Brewer

Clearly there's only one type of brewer that can eneter. Who gives a **** if they brew on their own gear, you cant just stop being a commercial brewer all of a sudden because you want to pry a few prizes from the hands of an AMATEUR entering an AMATEUR competition. It's disguisting that these people even entered in the first place, regardless of the official rules. Show some ******* ethics in the overall spirit of the hobby.

 

[MHB]

Have been thinking about a way to define what is eligible for armature competition and what isnt, how about:
Beer on which no excise is charged.
That rules out anything made on a commercial system including I believe BOP where a concessional rate of excise is levied, wort from a commercial brewery and most of the other issues raised are covered by this definition.
It leaves in Kits, Extract, FWK and naturally enough All Grain.
MHB

 

[argon]

Have been thinking about a way to define what is eligible for armature competition and what isnt, how about:
Beer on which no excise is charged.
That rules out anything made on a commercial system including I believe BOP where a concessional rate of excise is levied, wort from a commercial brewery and most of the other issues raised are covered by this definition.
It leaves in Kits, Extract, FWK and naturally enough All Grain.
MHB

I reckon this definition is almost there... with perhaps the FWK, which is (hot side) produced on a commercial system, however does not attract an excise.

I maintain that if something (excluding yeast) is required to turn the ingredients into beer then that is elligible for an Amateur competition eg Hopped kit requires water, FWK does not require anything, with emphasis on require.

And anyone can enter it, don't care what you do for a living.

 

[Paul H]

Usain Bolt running in the special Olympics with no shoes on is still Usain Bolt.

But what if he has no legs??

:icon_cheers:

Paul

 

[Paul H]

What's the point of cake if you can't eat it?

What about on your birthday????

:icon_cheers:

Paul

 

[Snow]

Batz some of the old time "invisible brewers" don't have a lot to say because this has all been said before, I know I had plenty to say a couple of years ago as did a few others with no result and at that time no one really gave a ****.
This topic in one form or another is brought up every year and not just with the QABC but others around the country as well, I just think it's a very ambiguous rule and it would be very hard to draft a rule that was as iron clad as it would need to be, and even harder to enforce.

Andrew

Ditto. I am reading this whole thread, but me putting in 2c won't achieve anything.

- Snow

 

[bonj]

Ditto. I am reading this whole thread, but me putting in 2c won't achieve anything.

- Snow

Even if you don't want to post your opinion in the thread, at least vote in the poll so we get a somewhat accurate view.

 

[WarmBeer]

Even if you don't want to post your opinion in the thread, at least vote in the poll so we get a somewhat accurate view.

The poll doesn't provide enough options to accurately represent the view of the community.

In my own instance, I believe that FWK's should not be eligible, but can'o'goop hopped extract should.

I don't have that option, so rather than misrepresenting my opinion, I chose not to vote.

 

[bonj]

The poll doesn't provide enough options to accurately represent the view of the community.

In my own instance, I believe that FWK's should not be eligible, but can'o'goop hopped extract should.

I don't have that option, so rather than misrepresenting my opinion, I chose not to vote.

Yes, unfortunately, the polls only allow 3 questions. Had I worded it differently and provided multiple choice answers, we might have been able to cater for more options, but I can't change it now... and that's why I want those that can't vote for any reason, to express their views in the thread, so they can at least be acknowledged, if not enumerated.

 

[argon]

Yes, unfortunately, the polls only allow 3 questions. Had I worded it differently and provided multiple choice answers, we might have been able to cater for more options, but I can't change it now... and that's why I want those that can't vote for any reason, to express their views in the thread, so they can at least be acknowledged, if not enumerated.

I agree with what WarmBeer has said i.e. no to FWKs and yes to kits... therefore i voted no, because of the wording of the question. No reason why no-one cannot vote.

 

[Ross]

I reckon this definition is almost there... with perhaps the FWK, which is (hot side) produced on a commercial system, however does not attract an excise.

I maintain that if something (excluding yeast) is required to turn the ingredients into beer then that is elligible for an Amateur competition eg Hopped kit requires water, FWK does not require anything, with emphasis on require.

And anyone can enter it, don't care what you do for a living.

CraftBrewer FWK's are the only ones on the market that I'm aware of that you don't need to add water. So you just want to ban ours & no-one elses

My personal opinion is that any beer that contains prehopped extract should be excluded, this encompasses all kits, but as it's never likely to happen, the only other option really is to allow them all.

Cheers Ross

 

[petesbrew]

Usain Bolt running in the special Olympics with no shoes on is still Usain Bolt.

That's just quitters talk.
There's always a chance he might tread on a bindi.

 

[Millet Man]

BOP no - you didn't brew or ferment it

FWK no - you didn't brew it, you probably can't stuff it up if you're a reasonable fermentation controller and it's a good chance to hit a style without tweaking

Kits yes - you didn't brew it but you need to add some skill and ingredients other than water and yeast to make it hit a recognised style

Extract and All Grain definitely yes

Beer/wort must be made at home

Amatuer and professional brewers both welcome

The main problem is that someone lacking in ethics could enter a BOP or FWK beer and you would never know.

Cheers, Andrew.

 

[argon]

CraftBrewer FWK's are the only ones on the market that I'm aware of that you don't need to add water. So you just want to ban ours & no-one elses

My personal opinion is that any beer that contains prehopped extract should be excluded, this encompasses all kits, but as it's never likely to happen, the only other option really is to allow them all.

Cheers Ross

No... emphasis on required... as an example the St peter's FWKs don't require extra water, they only recommend extra water. The OG is within range to make beer. You can simply add yeast and get beer.

Wheras with an unhopped extract kit you are required to add water for it to be suitable for fermentation.

Know what i'm getting at?

 

[schooey]

BOP no - you didn't brew or ferment it

FWK no - you didn't brew it, you probably can't stuff it up if you're a reasonable fermentation controller and it's a good chance to hit a style without tweaking

Kits yes - you didn't brew it but you need to add some skill and ingredients other than water and yeast to make it hit a recognised style

Extract and All Grain definitely yes

Beer/wort must be made at home

Amatuer and professional brewers both welcome

The main problem is that someone lacking in ethics could enter a BOP or FWK beer and you would never know.

Cheers, Andrew.

I vote this. Just bullet point that sucker and add it to the rules...

 

[argon]

I vote this. Just bullet point that sucker and add it to the rules...

+1

 

[Parks]

+1

This is exactly where I stand too.

 

[bradsbrew]

This is exactly where I stand too.

+1 for me on that too. Has anyone mentioned that brew comps are a lottery? That normally comes up each year as well.

And the only thing I can add to this thread is that its

You can't keep your cake and eat it too.................makes more sense eh.

Cheers Brad