3v Setup For A Triple Size Batch

[QldKev]

I'm getting ideas for my 3V HERMS system.

Now I want to go a 3V HERMS setup designed to allow a triple size batch with a decent size grain bill, say for a 5.5% final beer. My 100L pot arrived today; thanks to a new member 'Tmmu Hiid' for his ebay v5 post. If I allow a 12 to 14% boil off rate, I'm thinking the 100L pot may not be up to the job of a kettle, so maybe I need to find a 140L kettle.

Now I'm left with a 100L pot and a 82L keg for the HLT and Mash tun. Will a 82L Mash tun be OK for a triple size Mash, or will I find it restrictive? If I go the 82L HLT will I be pushing the time to get back the temps for sparge etc? I was hoping on running just a 10amp electric element in the HLT and HERMS.

QldKev

 

[chappo1970]

Kev,
I reckon you'll be pushing the boundaries on one front mate. The 10amp circuit. You just won't get there at those volumes IMO. The elements will be too slow. I am no electrical engineer mind you but running an element in your HLT, your HE and then the march pump might be stretching the friendship.

BUT 82lt MLT will be fine with 15kgs of grain and 45lts of water. Yeah it will be pushing it but very doable.

2c FWIW.

Chap Chap

 

[LLoyd]

Kev you must have known Chappo would jump on this one! :lol:

 

[bradsbrew]

Kev what final volume would you be expecting? I am using a 50L hlt, 50L Mash tun and a 100L kettle. I have been getting big double batches ( 45L @ 1060 ) easy. I have only tried a triple batch once and that was at Chap Chaps bewday and I think I eneded up with about 55/60 L at 1061 but I was a little bit shot by the end of the brew. My suggestion and it is what I will be doing, is to push the grain to water ratio to the limit in the tun and mash a longer to allow the HLT tobring the water up to temp.

Also with your rig would it be possible to use the extra burner spot to bring some extra water up to temp?

Keen to see how your project comes along.

Will have to catch up for a beer in the first week of june

Brad

 

[QldKev]

Kev,
I reckon you'll be pushing the boundaries on one front mate. The 10amp circuit. You just won't get there at those volumes IMO. The elements will be too slow. I am no electrical engineer mind you but running an element in your HLT, your HE and then the march pump might be stretching the friendship.

BUT 82lt MLT will be fine with 15kgs of grain and 45lts of water. Yeah it will be pushing it but very doable.

2c FWIW.

Chap Chap

Sorry I think I mislead you there, I was more referring to limiting a 10amp for the HLT element, another 10amp for HERMS element and another 10amp for the controllers.

Also for a faster HLT ramp up time I was thinking one of my current LPG burners to give it a blast until close to temp. That way of I get home from work early, and I want to chuck on an unplanned brew it can happen.

Kev you must have known Chappo would jump on this one! :lol:

Yep Chappo has had a play with his system, and had learnt a lot from it; so all good feedback.

Kev what final volume would you be expecting? I am using a 50L hlt, 50L Mash tun and a 100L kettle. I have been getting big double batches ( 45L @ 1060 ) easy. I have only tried a triple batch once and that was at Chap Chaps bewday and I think I eneded up with about 55/60 L at 1061 but I was a little bit shot by the end of the brew. My suggestion and it is what I will be doing, is to push the grain to water ratio to the limit in the tun and mash a longer to allow the HLT tobring the water up to temp.


QldKev: I am after a 75L batch; as I like to ferment in single batches I prefer to have a bit extra to waste if needed.

Also with your rig would it be possible to use the extra burner spot to bring some extra water up to temp?


QldKev: Actually I have never thought of that, having a second 'sparge water pot' that I can get ready using LPG heating

Keen to see how your project comes along.

Will have to catch up for a beer in the first week of june


Your always Welcome here; Give me some notice, if possible, and I'll try and get the Bundy Brewers together. Even if you need somewhere to crash for the night let me know.

Brad

 

[Cocko]

Kev,

Can't speak about the herms side of things but my rig is 'quad' batch.. if a batch is 20L [forget who made the rules ]

I run a 100L, eski, MT and 120L kettle. I brew to about 1050-1060.

I only just avoid boil overs and end up with 4 full 20L cubes, which end up being about 90 odd L of fermented beer!

I reckon you could pull triple batches, 60 odd L, out a 100L kettle easy!

82L tun should be fine by my math... but again, don't get/do the herms math.

anyway 2c.

Cheers

 

[QldKev]

Kev,

Can't speak about the herms side of things but my rig is 'quad' batch.. if a batch is 20L [forget who made the rules ]

I run a 100L, eski, MT and 120L kettle. I brew to about 1050-1060.

I only just avoid boil overs and end up with 4 full 20L cubes, which end up being about 90 odd L of fermented beer!

I reckon you could pull triple batches, 60 odd L, out a 100L kettle easy!

82L tun should be fine by my math... but again, don't get/do the herms math.

anyway 2c.

Cheers

Using volumes it may be better; out of the kettle you have 80L, I'm after 75L so just a bit less.
So do you think I would get away with a 82L HLT, allowing only a 10amp element for heating?
The 100L Mash tun looks ok as its the same size as yours,
And the kettle, sounds like a 140L is the go; which is the size Gregs also though best.

The other way we was thinking if I use the 100L for HLT;
and 82L for Mash Tun; but may have to allow 2 lots of batch sparging.

Thanks

QldKev

 

[chappo1970]

Using volumes it may be better; out of the kettle you have 80L, I'm after 75L so just a bit less.
So do you think I would get away with a 82L HLT, allowing only a 10amp element for heating?
The 100L Mash tun looks ok as its the same size as yours,
And the kettle, sounds like a 140L is the go; which is the size Gregs also though best.

The other way we was thinking if I use the 100L for HLT;
and 82L for Mash Tun; but may have to allow 2 lots of batch sparging.

Thanks

QldKev

Sounds like a plan there Kev. Don't forget you can use your HERMS to heat your strike water which gives you more flexibility with the HLT.

Chap Chap

 

[gregs]

Kev I just put a mock recipe into Beer Smith for an IPA at the upper boundary of the style specifications for a 75 litre batch using an 82 litre mash tun and set the water to grain ratio at 2.85 litres per kg.

This is what the mash profile will look like on your brew sheet.


View attachment recipes.htm

I think we should push a similar recipe through my system, and then youll have a better idea of what your system requirements may be.

Gregs.

 

[QldKev]

Kev I just put a mock recipe into Beer Smith for an IPA at the upper boundary of the style specifications for a 75 litre batch using an 82 litre mash tun and set the water to grain ratio at 2.85 litres per kg.

This is what the mash profile will look like on your brew sheet.


View attachment 37098

I think we should push a similar recipe through my system, and then youll have a better idea of what your system requirements may be.

Gregs.

Sounds like a plan Greg, let me know when; the only issue may be the kettle even If bring the 100L pot over 87L would be close for boil overs.
Quick thought maybe if I throw my rig in the car we can boil half using it.

QldKev

 

[gregs]

Sounds like a plan Greg, let me know when; the only issue may be the kettle even If bring the 100L pot over 87L would be close for boil overs.
Quick thought maybe if I throw my rig in the car we can boil half using it.

QldKev

It will be pushing it but I do have that 110 litre kettle to put into action.

Did you notice on the brew sheet (prepare 111 litres of water), but as I said the beer is at the upper leaves of the style.

 

[paulwolf350]

It will be pushing it but I do have that 110 litre kettle to put into action.

Did you notice on the brew sheet (prepare 111 litres of water), but as I said the beer is at the upper leaves of the style.

You will be pushing it to fit 65 litres of water and 22 kg of grain into a 82 litre mash tun. I am interested to see too because i am going to use the same mash tun with a 120 litre kettle

 

[paulwolf350]

........ I'm thinking the 100L pot may not be up to the job of a kettle, so maybe I need to find a 140L kettle.....................

QldKev

Yeah Kev, I think 140l kettle, 100l mash tun, 82l Hlt sounds like the go, You will do 75 - 80 litre batchs easy..................Hmmm maybe I need to upgrade......where can i find a 150 litre kettle?

 

[QldKev]

It will be pushing it but I do have that 110 litre kettle to put into action.

Did you notice on the brew sheet (prepare 111 litres of water), but as I said the beer is at the upper leaves of the style.

Yep didn't think about the other pot at you place. I think 110L should be ok as long as one of us stays near it when getting to the boil.

Yep I'm worried about the HLT, after we dump the initial 65L of water across we need to get the next 50L of water back to 78c (say 50c change). In my spreadsheet I work it out to be 1.27 hours using a 2200w element (the one I have ready for this job). So basically by the time we mash and ramp up for mash out; there will be no real extra time. I could always get used to a 75min mash; otherwise I could always try using the hot water tap.

You will be pushing it to fit 65 litres of water and 22 kg of grain into a 82 litre mash tun. I am interested to see too because i am going to use the same mash tun with a 120 litre kettle

I remember someone worked out roughly how much volume grain displaces in the mash tun, but cannot remember the exact number. It I work out at 0.5L per 1kg of grain. 22 x 0.5 = 11 plus 65L water = 76L displacement; ouch. Maybe I'll need to bring the 100L pot for test day. But then we would need to adapt a fitting for it. We could always got with a 2.5:1 water to grain ratio, so that would drop it batch to 55L of water.

Yeah Kev, I think 140l kettle, 100l mash tun, 82l Hlt sounds like the go, You will do 75 - 80 litre batchs easy..................Hmmm maybe I need to upgrade......where can i find a 150 litre kettle?

I have someone looking for a larger one (140L) for me at the moment, I'll let him to to keep an eye out for a couple. We'll see what price he comes in at when he gets them; if they are worth buying.

QldKev