3 piece valves... worth the extra cost?

[philistine]

So I just pulled apart a standard 1/2" ball valve so I could soak it in sodium perc and clean the shit out of it.
It was really easy...
I always thought it was difficult and that that's why people get the 3 piece ones.
Im in the market for a few valves and was considering getting 3 piece ones for this reason... but they're double the price and right now I cant see the point... I mean, they look cool and stuff......

am I missing something?
do the 3 piece valves come apart even further or something?

 

[MartinOC]

Interested to hear how you pulled-apart a standard one, when they're cast/machined in one piece...? How far did you get into it?

The 3-piece ones are designed so they can be completely dismantled for thorough cleaning &/or replacement of all "wearing" components. They're a "lifetime" purchase for that reason.

Standard ones can't be thoroughly clean IMHO & after a while, need to be replaced (ie. usually end-up into landfill).

 

[philistine]

I just put one end in a vice and used a shifter

 

[philistine]

Although i am slightly concerned at that stainless 316 marine grade rust

 

[philistine]

Here it is fully disassembled and cleaned.
The only bit i didn't remove was the nylon bush that seals the spindle.
Im sure it'll come out, i just didnt want to damage it

 

[Brewno Marz]

You should not need to dissamble the valve as you have.

Home brewing is a very light duty application for a valve, so a standard SS ball valve with teflon seats (e.g. as sold by Keg King) would be fine for everything up to and including the boil kettle. If they are cleaned regularly there should be no reason that they would need replacing for many years, if ever. Post sterilisation of the boil kettle, cleanliness becomes more important, so three piece valves may be worth considering if you can afford them, as you can completely disassemble the valve and clean every surface directly - the teflon seats, the ball, the valve body and the inlet and outlet ports.

That said, I have three piece valves on my conical fermenter and only disassemble them completely every three to five brews. My other FV has a one piece ball valve and for the 3 to 5 brews in between on the conical I am careful in cleaning and work the valve open and closed several times when cleaning/flushing/sanitising to get into the dead space between the ball and body. This is much quicker than disassemble and reassemble. I use trisodium phosphate in boiling water for clenaing, flush with tap water, then use a phosphoric acid based sanitiser.

 

[philistine]

but you can also do exactly the same thing with a 2 piece (see above pic).
you can clean the seats and every surface **if** you want to. Its no less sanitary than a 3 piece - pre, or post boil.

Anyway, I've realised that the idea behind a 3 piece valve has nothing to do with cleaning. Its designed so it can be taken apart or removed in-situ. (as in, without disrupting any of the other plumbing thats attached to it)


So my conclusion - for homebrewing, 3 piece valves look cool, but are completely unnecessary (and double the price!) unless you've used 'hard' plumbing on your setup, in which case a 3 piece would make said plumbing slightly easier to dismantle.

 

[razz]

I agree philistine, in the time it takes me to undo three bolts on a three piece valve I can undo a two piece valve and clean the crap out of it. I have both and either way it doesn't take all that long to do them both.

 

[technobabble66]

In short, yeah you're right, philistine.
I was exactly the same 4 years ago when I virtually by accident discovered I could pull apart my "1-piece" completely and sat back wondering "so wtf does everyone say you need to buy the 3-piece as its the only one you can pull apart?!"
4 years later, I now have 4 vessels all with 1-piece valves and am very happy with them. Still no idea why peeps claim you need to buy the 3-piece, they just repeat the same mantra like post#6 (sorry brewno marz, not intending to have a go at you).
To be fair, I think there's also a different type of 1-piece you can get that looks a bit like a small single piece of steel pipe with an handle in it. I'd guess those ones can't be disassembled. Maybe that's where the belief comes from?

 

[captain crumpet]

I regret getting 3 piece valves. And whoever said you should never have to dismantle to clean, i suggest you have never cleaned it properly and you havent seen how much crap can build inside.

 

[Mardoo]

Wait, don't you guys get it? THREE PIECES means you have MORE VALVE! Erm, well....

The in-situ thing is correct. I didn't understand that until after I had picked up a lifetime supply of 3-piece valves.

Here are good, clear videos on disassembling ball valves and 3-piece ball valves for cleaning:

https://youtu.be/m0tBH0KNi7U

https://youtu.be/VcLofhRLbsU

 

[klangers]

Ball valves aren't sanitary so yeah, the idea is that 3-piece gives you a way to service the valve without having to disrupt the pipework.

We really need some small butterfly valves to hit the homebrew market...

 

[scooterism]

These seem a popular item;

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/121335627378?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&var=420283575359&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

 

[philistine]

Ahhhh, i figured it out now, technobabble pointed it out above.
There is a 1-piece type - link.
I still reckon you could pull it apart though... you might be able to press the nylon/teflon seats in post-manufacture, but there's no way they could mould the valve body around the ball... SO THERE MUST BE A WAY

 

[BradG]

They have an internal bit that screws inside the end to hold the ball and seals in.

 

[ScottyDoesntKnow]

Yep I've completely pulled apart an old 1 piece valve just to see if it's worth the savings between 2 piece and 3 piece valves. The internal fitting is normally hexagonal so find an Allen key that fits that to unscrew it. It was a much slower process and I couldn't work out how to completely disassemble it without bending one of the internal teflon washers. Haven't even tried to put it back together yet, just doesn't seem worth it but the Chinese eBay ones are pretty cheap.

 

[scooterism]

With a 2 pce, what do you do when the end seals give out?

Can you buy new seals?

A 3 pce, you can buy new seals..

just sayin'..

 

[philistine]

Didnt think of that... but, where do you get the seals from? surely they sell seals for 2 piece types as well?
They might be the same anyway....?

 

[scooterism]

Not according to the videos above..

Maybe a silcon o-ring maybe a suitable replacement, not sure..

 

[klangers]

I would be highly surprised if a home brewer EVER needed to replace seats on a ball valve. Then, the cost of the new seats is likely to be similar to a new valve anyhow.

At work, we throw them in the bin instead of rebuilding them - it's so rare they need any attention.