2007 Hop Plantations

[kevnlis]

I would not take these cuttings before you move but rather at the same time. An already stressed plant will take the move harder than a healthy plant.

 

[Kingy]

Does any one know what specific hop this is, "Humulus Lupulus"

 

[Duff]

Hey guys,

I seriously can't comment on what happens to stuff grown outside what is considered the natural range of hops, i.e. latitudes 35-55. Your climate and more importantly daylength are completely different. I have no idea what the plants will do in those conditions.

MFS

I haven't followed this thread for quite some time as I grew hops last year, but not this year.

As a plant breeder who is trying to finish writing his %$#@ing PhD thesis, some of your comments mfdes are a long way off the mark.

I'm not surprised that guys who have cut back the inital shoots have had problems since. They are the main growth point. When anyone plants a rhizome during late winter/early spring, the rhizome will have a limited supply of carbohydrates stored in it, as most plants store carbo's when they do into dormancy. When the rhizome is planted, roots develop and nutrients from the soil which assist growth are exchanged by the release of hydrogen into the soil. This is in part, along with rainfall and other factors, why soils without natural calcareous deposits gradually go acidic in nature over time and why lime is applied by the manager. With the uptake in nutrients, the plant is able to expend energy into producing growth points which develop into shoots, which bear leaves, which photosynthesise sunlight, which produce sugars, which makes cells within the plant divide and elongate, which make the vine grow. If you go and cut back those intial shoots, no leaves, no photosynthesis, no sugars, no cell division, no grow.

As far as daylength, or photoperiod, is concerened, plants have an amazing ability to adapt to individual growing conditions. We are not talking about a delicate orchid or anything here, we are talking about a vine. Photoperiod is one factor which can trigger flowering in plants, but so are temperature interactions, maturity of the plant, nutrient levels, etc. The whole notion that photoperiod affects hop plants outside of 35 degrees latitude is plain wrong. I had a bumper crop in Sydney last year with my first season Chinook.

Anyone had to dig up and transplant their growing rhizome? Im moving house early december. My POR is already 3-4 metres tall :angry:
Cheers
Steve

Steve, if you are going to do it, do it now while the temperatures are still cool. Cut it back, but leave at least 3 to 4 nodes (or 3 to 4 points where the leaves are sprouting) and pop it in a pot. You may not unfortunately see any flowers when time comes, but you never know. Do leave in this case some roots surrounding the rhizome to assist in re-establishment.

That sounds like it's going to be a chore! I have no experience with it myself, but can only suggest very slowly and carefully digging out as much of the root system as you can. These things can go down several metres though, and like most roots, are extremely delicate.

Hop roots have to be the most rubbery, strong and not delicate at all things I have seen in any plant. I planted my rhizomes in the garden last year and trained them over tomato trellises. You can afford to be very aggressive with them. The rhizomes I dug up, I chopped into pieces based on the growth buds I saw on them. I then cut all the thick roots off. The rhizomes seem to be growing quite well for others in this thread, such as petesbrew, Doc, Gerard_M and Jazzafish to name a couple. I obviously missed a small part, and with no water, no fertiliser, no nothing, I had this pop up a few weeks back.

If I could add anything for those growing hops:

1. The KISS principle applies.
2. DO NOT cut back the initial shoots.
3. Keep the pH between 6 - 7.
4. Water regularly.
5. Fertilise every 6 weeks or so with something like Thrive.
6. Add some mulch around the base.
7. You can seperate them easily by digging up the rhizome if you wish.
8. If you grow them in a pot, remove them at the completion of the season and cut back all the roots. Place the rhizome in wet paper towel and pop it in the fridge until next planting. Replace your potting mix. You'll be amazed at the rootball.

 

[Steve]

Thanks Duff for that information. Very interesting. I will do the deed this weekend (with a tear in my eye) and stick it in a pot.
Cheers
Steve

 

[floppinab]

As a plant breeder who is trying to finish writing his %$#@ing PhD thesis, some of your comments mfdes are a long way off the mark.

............................................

Where were you when I needed you..!!!!!!! B)

 

[mfdes]

http://www.americanbrewmaster.com/growing_hops.htm in "Getting Started"

http://hbd.org/hbd/archive/4731.html#4731-2 "Growing hops in central Texas" <-- Similar latitude to Sydney

 

[mfdes]

As a plant breeder who is trying to finish writing his %$#@ing PhD thesis, some of your comments mfdes are a long way off the mark.

I don't really know that it matters whether you're a student or not. I am talking of experience growing hops where they are grown commercially, here in southern Tas, and not in Sydney. I don't know what level of experience you have breeding hops in Sydney, but I was not aware of a hop breeding program other than the one run by my department and HPS. I am sharing my experiences growing hops, and how I understand them to behave. You cannot generalise experience with other plants to how hops behave...

Again, I am sure there are people lurking here who have had EXACTLY the same problem as I with stunting from low light. As to the rhizomes losing vigour, in my experience they do not, quite the contrary, IF you cut the early growth the moment it breaks the ground, until mid october. Keep in mind they have generally quite a few buds, and are establishing a root system.

However, if you see a stem come up in August, wait to see what happens, it grows up 10-15 centimeters, stalls, and THEN you cut it, the damage is done and the plant's likely gone dormant again. As to whether plants adapt or not, they certainly do over generations. Keep in mind hop varieties are all clones of the same, and as such restricted by what their genes code that they can and cannot do. There is no selection, as we're only propagating vegetatively.

Am I the only one to have seen this happen? I have been growing hops since 1995, and have seen this frequently with newly established plants. Anyone?

 

[Duff]

http://www.americanbrewmaster.com/growing_hops.htm in "Getting Started"

http://hbd.org/hbd/archive/4731.html#4731-2 "Growing hops in central Texas" <-- Similar latitude to Sydney

From the first link:

'The first bines that begin to grow may be subject to frost bite. Commercially, all new bines if they come up too early, like in February, will be cut.'

A quick search shows the minimum temperature of Yakima in February to be around 25F, around -4C. Of course frost bite will injure a plant, but the guys growing here are not doing it commerically and they are planting in spring, in Australia. Soil temperature is the driving factor for the initial shooting. I don't think the guys on the Sunshine Coast are affected by frost, and here in Sydney I haven't seen any frost on my lawn for the past 3 winters. However, all have been advised to cut back the initial shoots which is incorrect.

With around 14h photoperiod now in Sydney, and taking into account the phytochrome activity within the leaf of around 30min either side, the hops are getting sufficient sunlight right now and will continue to right through flowering. And not just here, same applies right the way up to Kevin in Bundaberg, with his reports of good growth, at 25 degrees latitude. Comes back to the point about adaptation.

 

[Steve]

Anyone?

Two interesting reads mfdes - thanks. I prefer the KISS principle though, chicken shit, compost and treat it like the weed that it is i.e. leave it alone...and let it do its own thing. Each to their own and all that. :icon_chickcheers:
Cheers
Steve

Edit: Any tips on transplanting a 3-4 metre 10 bine hop plant?

 

[drsmurto]

Not yet read those links mfdes, but what happened to my hops are as you suggested. Unlike the ppl in Sydney, spring doesnt mean the end of cold weather, the last frosts in the Adelaide Hills were early October. So my cluster rhizome poked its head up late August and subsequently got frozen to death a week later with the 'nettlehead' like growth. I left it 2 weeks, it did nothing so i cut iut all back. It reemerged recently but its still damn cold at nights on and off so its not done much. The chinook i keep mentioning was from tassie, a colder climate much like the Adelaide Hills and is growing at a rate similar to those down on the plains.

i think before we turn this into another divisive thread (a la no chill) we need to take into account the wildly different climatic conditions that these plants are being grown in and each of these require different treatments.

As an alternate example i gave earlier - my chilli seeds have not germinated yet due to the fact that the average soil temperature has not reached the required levels, this likely is the reason why some of my hops have yet to emerge.

 

[mfdes]

i think before we turn this into another divisive thread (a la no chill) we need to take into account the wildly different climatic conditions that these plants are being grown in and each of these require different treatments.

True, and I've said all along that this IS a problem in southern Tas, where we only get 8 hours of daylight in july-august, but I don't know about the big island to the north.
Apparently spring pruning is widely carried out in the US too:

http://www.cals.uidaho.edu/pses/Research/r..._hopprofile.htm

http://www.ebrew.com/primarynews/hop_rhizomes_planting.htm

http://www.ipmcenters.org/cropprofiles/docs/wahops.html


MFS

 

[drsmurto]

Sorry mfdes, wasnt having a go per se, but i will point out thet soil temperature plays a big part and like you, we take a lot longer to get to a warm enough soil temp for some plants to sprout. In the hills we are around a month to 6 weeks behind on the growing season when compared to the plains. I suspect southern tas has even colder average soil temps

 

[AngelTearsOnMyTongue]

Peace man.

Steve.

I have the same problem as you. I had my magnificent first year Chinook that gave me 3 Kgs last year. Then I did a swap with Cannabaceae and he gave me a Hursbruker, a Goldings and a Hallertau. All good size Rhizome root balls. I was really excited to get them and was all set to Plant them in my Veggie patch that I have nurtured for the last five years.

I got home the next day and my wife told me they were selling our house.

I had to plant them all in pots to my very great disappointment. Not only that but I have been too upset to dig up my Chinook and now I may have left it too late. It just started going beserk last weekend.

To add to my misery, despite its terrific condidtion, the Hersbrucker never came up.

Now we cant find a house with enough garden, and to top it all off, after six years in the same place our rent is going to go up by $200 - $300 per week. SHEEESH

I just hope I can see these babies through to a good planting somewhere worthwhile.
I knew the dream would come to an end.

ATOMT

 

[Steve]

I know your pain ATOMT.......I tried convincing my wife that we should wait until winter to buy a new house as the hops would be having a nice nap....she just rolled her eyes and said "I dont think so do you?". They just dont understand the love between a man and his 'op plant! Good luck man.

Cheers
Steve

 

[mfdes]

ATOF,

I don't think you should have too much problem with the chinook, it's one of the most vigorous varieties out there. I have moved hops twice during the growing season before, and as long as you keep the water up to them in the first season (this is crucial, but careful not to waterlog them), they're usually fine. It's the water availability that makes all the diference. Also, on the same note, it pays to make sure you really keep the weeds at bay (I go with bare ground, other people mulch) and don't plant too close to established trees to ensure all the water is available to the hops.

Beers

MFS

 

[Lukes]

Started to train them over the line to grow them horizontally as can be seen in the insert pic.
Shot up heaps in the last couple of weeks since the last post thanks to a big dose of fertilizer.

Expecting some warm weather over the weekend that will kick them along even more (they are in full sun all day).
- Luke

 

[Thommo]

I know your pain ATOMT.......I tried convincing my wife that we should wait until winter to buy a new house as the hops would be having a nice nap....she just rolled her eyes and said "I dont think so do you?". They just dont understand the love between a man and his 'op plant! Good luck man.

Cheers
Steve

I got in a heap of trouble last week when I had to admit to the misses that the weeds she wanted me to remove were some Chinook and Columbus I'd planted in our Rose garden out the front.

She was Not happy Jan.

 

[mudsta]

Well as a first time hop grower I'm pretty happy with my hops so far.
They have been in just on two months and are growing crazy!!

See attached pics of my hop yard. Poles are 4.5m high off the ground, with two wires strung between the tops of each pole.
I have a total of 84 strings (6 for each plant) tied up to the overhead wires.

The current hight of my hops are below:
Goldings 2.8m!!!
Hersbruker 2.0m
Hallertau 1.9m
Tettnanger 1.25m
Cluster - 0.85m
Chinook - 0.4m

I think my Goldings will reach the top of my wires in two weeks at the speed they are growing.
I spent a few hours this week removing the excess bines and leaves around the root crown and have also given them a dose of fertilizer.
I have had some issues with leaf wilt; some powdery mildew and the snails also seem to like them.
The wind down here was also really giving them a beating, so I put up some shade cloth, which helped a lot.
They are starting to shoot out side runners all the way up the main bines at each leaf segment, I cant wait to they start to flower!!!

Does anybody know if I should leave the side shoots on the main bines on or cut them off?

Mudsta :beerbang:

 

[domonsura]

Nice one Justin, they look like they're doing well. I had a couple of snails try a sneaky one too, bit I put some cane sugar mulch around them and haven't had a problem since. Spider mites have also had a go, I zapped them with a tomato general pest spray and they are gone too.

Cluster starting to head along the string

Hallertau starting to get moving again, but definitely less vigorous than the rest

A couple of POR that Wally gave me, they're just starting to take off but I'm putting them out next to the cluster tonight as the spot they are in has become recently shaded.

I reckon you'd want to leave the side shoots on, the stuff I've read reckons just to try to make sure they don't tangle too badly.

 

[kabooby]

Well as a first time hop grower I'm pretty happy with my hops so far.
They have been in just on two months and are growing crazy!!

See attached pics of my hop yard. Poles are 4.5m high off the ground, with two wires strung between the tops of each pole.
I have a total of 84 strings (6 for each plant) tied up to the overhead wires.

The current hight of my hops are below:
Goldings 2.8m!!!
Hersbruker 2.0m
Hallertau 1.9m
Tettnanger 1.25m
Cluster - 0.85m
Chinook - 0.4m

I think my Goldings will reach the top of my wires in two weeks at the speed they are growing.
I spent a few hours this week removing the excess bines and leaves around the root crown and have also given them a dose of fertilizer.
I have had some issues with leaf wilt; some powdery mildew and the snails also seem to like them.
The wind down here was also really giving them a beating, so I put up some shade cloth, which helped a lot.
They are starting to shoot out side runners all the way up the main bines at each leaf segment, I cant wait to they start to flower!!!

Does anybody know if I should leave the side shoots on the main bines on or cut them off?

Mudsta :beerbang:

Great Selection of hop plants there Mudsta

My only concern is that if you let them all go than they are all going to grow together. Then it will be a real PITA to try and work out what hops you are actually picking

Kabooby