2007 Hop Plantations

[chovain]

Domonsura,
I have read the same info before in a number of places, but can't remember where.
I have cut back all new growth to the ground twice now this year,
and the round 3 shoots coming up are much stronger, thicker, and healthier looking than the earlier ones.
One plant has grown over a foot in the last 3 days.
I think there is some validity in what mfdes says.
Will try to remember where else i read about the advantages of doing this.

I seem to remember reading that it's worth cutting shoots back if they grow to early to avoid damage from frost and cold weather. I don't think that's generally a major concern for us here.

 

[drsmurto]

I seem to remember reading that it's worth cutting shoots back if they grow to early to avoid damage from frost and cold weather. I don't think that's generally a major concern for us here.

Maybe not for you pesky northerners but here in the Adelaide hills its still brass monkey weather till late October, when the frosts finally stop. The cluster popped up when it thought all the frosts were done but a week later, wham, another week of severe frosts and it froze in place. I chopped it all back down to the ground and a week again it sprouted again, but this time about 1cm and then the rains came and its done squat since. Tempted to nip it back again.

Now that spring is well and truly here the chinook is happy as a pig in shit and growing like thats what its sitting in..... pity the other 4 are still sound asleep.

And what is chewing on the leaves, cant find any caterpillars or is that a sign of needing fertiliser?

 

[Barramundi]

is it too late to be planting a rhiosome now in sydney ???

 

[chovain]

Maybe not for you pesky northerners but here in the Adelaide hills its still brass monkey weather till late October, when the frosts finally stop. The cluster popped up when it thought all the frosts were done but a week later, wham, another week of severe frosts and it froze in place. I chopped it all back down to the ground and a week again it sprouted again, but this time about 1cm and then the rains came and its done squat since. Tempted to nip it back again.

And this is why it's important when giving advice to explain why certain procedures should be followed (I'm as guilty as the next guy on that one). It's not enough that it's just the way it's always been done; a procedure that is right for one person is not necessarily right for another.

When I was growing up, I always watched my mum preparing the roast. She'd always cut a few centimetres off each end. When I asked her why she did that, she explained it was how her mum always did it. I did the same things until one day, I asked my grandmother why she cut the ends off the roast. "I only did that if it wouldn't fit in the pan!" What a waste of meat! (*)

(*) Story may not be factually correct.

 

[chovain]

is it too late to be planting a rhiosome now in sydney ???

I planted a Tardif about 2-3 weeks ago, and it's going strong (in a good sunny position). If you've got one, it wouldn't hurt to give it a shot, but you shouldn't expect a good harvest (I suspect it'll do better in the ground than the fridge).

 

[domonsura]

That's what I'm looking for if you can remember thanks Dr Gonzo, I've been looking all over the place for some info on that because I wasn't keen to do it to mine unless I'd seen verification of it & there also seem to be a few new hops growers who did cut back, and are sitting wondering now.( I'm not trying to say mdfes was bs'ing us all, just his info on nettlehead seemed to be a bit backwards and I can't find anything to corroborate his info on cutting back early growth myself.) So when in doubt, ask the horse

 

[domonsura]

Maybe not for you pesky northerners but here in the Adelaide hills its still brass monkey weather till late October, when the frosts finally stop. The cluster popped up when it thought all the frosts were done but a week later, wham, another week of severe frosts and it froze in place. I chopped it all back down to the ground and a week again it sprouted again, but this time about 1cm and then the rains came and its done squat since. Tempted to nip it back again.

Now that spring is well and truly here the chinook is happy as a pig in shit and growing like thats what its sitting in..... pity the other 4 are still sound asleep.

And what is chewing on the leaves, cant find any caterpillars or is that a sign of needing fertiliser?

Have a look on the underside of the leaves, see if you can spot any little tiny red/black mites. I've had to evict some of the little buggers from my hallertau already, it was looking a little sickly, I got rid of them and it's off again. Maybe you have some tiny unwanted guests?

 

[bindi]

Chinook making a come back after I cut it back to the ground.

 

[mfdes]

Hi All,

Still chasing the references, but in the meanwhile I'll explain the mechanism.
First to say I was indeed wrong as to it being called nettlehead. Down here in Bushy Park growers do refer to this process as nettlehead, however elsewhere it is the name of a viral disease caused by the Arabis Mosaic Virus.

It has all to do with photoperiod (daylength), and the environmental cues that trigger hops to go dormant in autumn and grow in spring.

Hops come from middle latitudes in Europe. In this area winters are far more continental, and consistently frosty throughout winter and into the middle of spring. This will become important in a moment. Also it is important to know that the hop uses daylength to determine when to go dormant in autumn. It uses daylength for most of its growth cues actually: the longest days of the year trigger flowering, and the onset of the autumn equinox (days become shorter than nights) approximately determines when the hops go yellow and the tops senesce (die). Some varieties are early and late flowering, depending on the number of hours in the day that triggers flowering. In the same way some hop varieties keep their leaves slightly longer than others.
Now, while it's short days that tell the hop plant to go to sleep for autumn, it can't use daylength as its spring cue to get growing. Why? Because it has no foliage out of the ground to detect daylength. So hop plants, as most deciduous plants, use temperature to determine when to sprout in spring.
Why is this important? As I said above, European climate is colder in winter and early spring than ours. Plants from those latitudes will sense the soil is warm enough and sprout earlier than they should in our climate. Normally, this would not be a problem and an extra long growing season would be a huge bonus, as more vegetative growth equals higher yields, generally. HOWEVER, hops are very sensitive do daylength, and the emerging shoots unfurl a few leaves, notice the days are short and it should in fact be going to sleep for winter, it stops growing and nothing else happens, usually for quite a few weeks.
This is the main problem. the vigour drops dramatically, the plant may or may not have enough energy to send shoots later on, or it may spend long enough in its obligate dormancy period that it looses too much vigour and cannot re-sprout in time to put enough growth to make a good growing season.

As I've said before, some varieties are more sensitive to this than others, and it all depends on where the parent stock comes from.

References to follow when I get a chance to go to the library.

MFS.

 

[mfdes]

Found some passages that go into hop cutting in spring at length on Rybacek, but not much info on why.

Rybachek, V. 1991. Hop Production. Elsevier, New York. 286pp.

Page 101: "Under Czechoslovak climatic conditions a retarded sprouting of the hop plant has been shown to be advantageous..."
Mentions of hop cutting in the section of "Spring treatment of the hop stands", pp 195-202.

Mind you this is in a climate where it's not considered necessary.
More to come when I find it.

MFS.

 

[drsmurto]

So apart from cutting back early shoots what other recommendations do you have mfdes? If the plant loses the vigour it needs to grow again will a dose of fertiliser give it the kick up the arse it needs? Since they successfully grow hops in Tassie and kiwi land (2 places much colder than where i am) i assume they have some method of dealing with it?

Sorry mate, i'm a scientist and so identifying a problem is only half the job, we need to solve it and like others have mentioned, evidence helps. Now that we have a name for it, other than nettlehead, it should be easier to track down some info.

Keep up the research mfdes.

And Wayne, checked the chinook last night, not a bug in sight. I gave it a healthy drink of fertiliser to see if that helps it.

Cheers
DrSmurto

 

[floppinab]

As I've said before, some varieties are more sensitive to this than others, and it all depends on where the parent stock comes from.

There's no guarantee to anything but looking at the some of the responses there's a bit of a common theme, and your last comment on where the parent stock comes from, also has a lot of merit I think.

I cut back all the growth on my two newly planted Rhizomes based on your advice that popped up as soon as I planted in early Sept. and they haven't been seen or heard of since apart from one shoot that popped up around 20cm from where I planted that I originally missed when I cut the rest back. That shoot is going quite strong. I just hope I haven't killed the other rhizome.

I am in Sydney and of course it is signficantly warmer, earlier, than the southern states. I suspect that north of Ulladulla, particularly on the coast, where we can expect warmer weather from early Sept. onward we are better off letting them go, whereas in the southern states where regular spring temps aren't experienced until mid-late Oct. you are better off cutting them back.

My Rhizomes came from Tassy so I strongly expect as soon as they were in the ground with day time temps avging 24 odd degrees they knew it was time to go and I should never have cut them back.

 

[Screwtop]

My hop plantation (second season):
Below is the Wurttemberger, at the base, up the trellis, then up the string, and almost to the top 3.5M. Cloudy weather doesn't help the pics, sorry.
Incider saw this plant 10 days ago before it had reached the string, not bad growth in 10 days, Sean.


Below is the Perle, which didn't do very well last year, transplanted to this position during winter, seems to be doing better. But still no where as robust a plant as the Wurty.


And the baby Wurties, tip cuttings potted last year. So far only 2 little girls have appeared this year.


The shoots appeared about a 6 weeks ago, and looked for a while to be as described above (nettlehead). Cut them back on one plant but not on the other. The one which was not cut back is the one which has taken off. Guess it was just photosynthesising and building up some energy so it could shoot that growth up to the top of the trellis in just on 19 days.

 

[mfdes]

Hey guys,

I seriously can't comment on what happens to stuff grown outside what is considered the natural range of hops, i.e. latitudes 35-55. Your climate and more importantly daylength are completely different. I have no idea what the plants will do in those conditions.

MFS

 

[Steve]

Anyone had to dig up and transplant their growing rhizome? Im moving house early december. My POR is already 3-4 metres tall :angry:
Cheers
Steve

 

[chovain]

Anyone had to dig up and transplant their growing rhizome? Im moving house early december. My POR is already 3-4 metres tall :angry:

That sounds like it's going to be a chore! I have no experience with it myself, but can only suggest very slowly and carefully digging out as much of the root system as you can. These things can go down several metres though, and like most roots, are extremely delicate. At best, it's going to be a sick-looking plant for a while.

Perhaps start by digging a deep trench off to the side (hopefully not taking out too many roots), then come in from the side, removing soil from the root system. You're going to want to get it in the ground again pretty quickly...

Whatever you do, keep us updated on the progress - I'm sure you won't be the last to want to do this.

 

[kevnlis]

There are hormones you can use to transplant that encourage the regrowth of roots. Combine this with a good mix of compost/manure with some Blood & Bone and Fish Emulsion you should have no worries.

I have mine burried in sand out in the citrus grove and it is going batty. Doesn't need much water or food and enjoys the strong Bundy sun so far.

 

[Steve]

That sounds like it's going to be a chore! I have no experience with it myself, but can only suggest very slowly and carefully digging out as much of the root system as you can. These things can go down several metres though, and like most roots, are extremely delicate. At best, it's going to be a sick-looking plant for a while.

Perhaps start by digging a deep trench off to the side (hopefully not taking out too many roots), then come in from the side, removing soil from the root system. You're going to want to get it in the ground again pretty quickly...

Whatever you do, keep us updated on the progress - I'm sure you won't be the last to want to do this.

I was advised by LHBS who gave me it a few years ago to just trim if down to the ground, dig er up, shove it in soggy newspaper and plant within a few days. A couple of years ago I was scratching around the area where it lives. The roots are running horizintally and they definately arent delicate. They're like tree roots 4-5 cm in diameter! Will keep you posted.
Cheers
Steve

 

[Screwtop]

To my mind, transplanting during the growing period could be risky, depends upon a lot of variables, mostly the current condition of the plant and where it's being located to (climate, soil type etc).

As insurance I would be taking as many tip cuttings as possible (put them in water to strike, then into pots of potting mix) beforehand, then dig up the rhizome as recommended when you leave.

Screwy

 

[Steve]

As insurance I would be taking as many tip cuttings as possible (put them in water to strike, then into pots of potting mix) beforehand, then dig up the rhizome as recommended when you leave.

Good thinking screwy