Yeast Starter

[Yob]

12 month old? In a fridge? More like 100ml..

Freezing yeast FTW

 

[Wilkensone]

12 month old? In a fridge? More like 100ml..

Freezing yeast FTW

#ignorance @Yob

Do you need to start with small starters and work up with old yeast so you don't shock them? Is there a way to know what size to how old?

 

[SimoB]

#ignorance @Yob

Do you need to start with small starters and work up with old yeast so you don't shock them? Is there a way to know what size to how old?

It's a good question. I am going to try and grab some slurry from the recent 001 i have just pitched and store it. I only have a 3L flask - Can you just do 500ml - decant, make some new wort then cool and tip into the same flask and repeat. Or like the above, go straight to a 2 or 3L starter.

yeast 101 - complete newbie here.

 

[stux]

How do you know how much viable yeast you have before and after building it back up though? You pitch a 12+ month slurry into 500mL or so of 1.030/40 wort?

I assume 1%



http://www.yeastcalculator.com


And its not a slurry. Its essentially quarter of a 12 month old wyeast smack pack. I don't use slurry as I can't get a clean ferment out of it in my location.

You can also see the yeast as it ages and dies it turns from a creamy white, to a peanuty brown colour, and then to a dark brown colour. As it does this there are little flecks of white still present. I assume as long as I can see some creamy colour matter in the pure yeast that there is still some goodness in the split.

But as its an unsmacked wyeast split there is nothing but yeast and a layer of 'beer' above the yeast, its as if it was perfectly washed.

How many steps and how small you start depends on how fresh the yeast is. I would probably go straight from the 25ml split into 200ml of 1.040 wort for the first step. Although if its truly old then perhaps a 100ml first step would make more sense, something I would decide at the time.

This is the risky one as there is a large jump for the yeast to make, but its also the best time to do it as its the first step, and you've had less steps/chances for contamination.

then double (ish) the steps until you get to the starter size you would normally have had anyway

So, say I wanted a 4L starter in the end.

So, for example, a ideal steps might be:

250ml -> 500ml -> 1L -> 2L -> 4L

To save chilling and decanting, I'll just transfer each step into a larger flask prepared with the the next steps wort, taking into account that I don't actually want to fill each flask to prevent a mess, I'll modify the steps slightly

I mix it all up in my 5L and then boil it in the separate flasks to sanitize them.

So, I'll prepare

500ml with 200mls (225 mls when I add the split)
1L with 400ml ( 625mls at step time
2L with 900ml = 1.5L
5L with 2L = 3.5L

If I wanted to go bigger, I would chill/decant the 5L and add another 3.5L for near enough a 4L starter.

Then I would chill, decant and pitch, being careful to remember to pull out the stirbar!

I end up with about a cm or two of creamy white yeast in the 5L, and that is about as big as I can go, any bigger and I might as well just brew a single batch of beer

Combined with a hit of oxygen in the fermenter I get a 60L ripping away in less than 8 hours after pitching

If the yeast was fresher, then I would go straight to a 500ml step.

For completeness, here's the guide I use to split wyeast packs
http://aussiehomebrewer.com/topic/45866-splitting-a-wyeast-smack-pack/

Here is wolfie's guide to stepping a slant to starter, which is a similar method
http://aussiehomebrewer.com/topic/46262-from-slant-to-starter-in-pictures/

 

[Yob]

Just to add something there Stux, if the yeast is quite old, it can help them if the initial starter gravity isn't over 1030, for really old yeast, 1020 and build up the gravity with the steps.

 

[SimoB]

I assume 1%



http://www.yeastcalculator.com


And its not a slurry. Its essentially quarter of a 12 month old wyeast smack pack. I don't use slurry as I can't get a clean ferment out of it in my location.

You can also see the yeast as it ages and dies it turns from a creamy white, to a peanuty brown colour, and then to a dark brown colour. As it does this there are little flecks of white still present. I assume as long as I can see some creamy colour matter in the pure yeast that there is still some goodness in the split.

But as its an unsmacked wyeast split there is nothing but yeast and a layer of 'beer' above the yeast, its as if it was perfectly washed.

How many steps and how small you start depends on how fresh the yeast is. I would probably go straight from the 25ml split into 200ml of 1.040 wort for the first step. Although if its truly old then perhaps a 100ml first step would make more sense, something I would decide at the time.

This is the risky one as there is a large jump for the yeast to make, but its also the best time to do it as its the first step, and you've had less steps/chances for contamination.

then double (ish) the steps until you get to the starter size you would normally have had anyway

So, say I wanted a 4L starter in the end.

So, for example, a ideal steps might be:

250ml -> 500ml -> 1L -> 2L -> 4L
To save chilling and decanting, I'll just transfer each step into a larger flask prepared with the the next steps wort, taking into account that I don't actually want to fill each flask to prevent a mess, I'll modify the steps slightly
I mix it all up in my 5L and then boil it in the separate flasks to sanitize them.

So, I'll prepare

500ml with 200mls (225 mls when I add the split)
1L with 400ml ( 625mls at step time
2L with 900ml = 1.5L
5L with 2L = 3.5L

If I wanted to go bigger, I would chill/decant the 5L and add another 3.5L for near enough a 4L starter.

Then I would chill, decant and pitch, being careful to remember to pull out the stirbar!

I end up with about a cm or two of creamy white yeast in the 5L, and that is about as big as I can go, any bigger and I might as well just brew a single batch of beer

Combined with a hit of oxygen in the fermenter I get a 60L ripping away in less than 8 hours after pitching

If the yeast was fresher, then I would go straight to a 500ml step.

For completeness, here's the guide I use to split wyeast packs
http://aussiehomebrewer.com/topic/45866-splitting-a-wyeast-smack-pack/

Here is wolfie's guide to stepping a slant to starter, which is a similar method
http://aussiehomebrewer.com/topic/46262-from-slant-to-starter-in-pictures/

Sorry to bring this up again - going to use my washed yeast in the next day or so. I only have a 3L flask. Can I step up using one by decanting and tipping fresh wort into the flask?

 

[Spiesy]

Sorry to bring this up again - going to use my washed yeast in the next day or so. I only have a 3L flask. Can I step up using one by decanting and tipping fresh wort into the flask?

Don't see why not.

 

[lael]

As long as it's chilled / not hot

 

[SimoB]

Awesome, cheers!

Sent from my HTC_PN071 using Tapatalk

 

[SimoB]

hey guys

do I require to step up slowly with yeast slurry. I'm guessing I have about 10 - 15ml of slurry in a 500ml jar. (i think) and guessing about 2.5billion/ml.

For the beer I am making OG is 1.053. Starter I need is about 1.5L or something. ml of yeast needed is about 100ml. I think, using mr malty no idea if im using it correctly though.

I was just going to go straight to the starter size - this going to OK?

Cheers,

 

[stux]

You should probably do at least a two step starter

500ml, give it two days, then tip it into 1L in your 3L flask.

I don't think 500ml will work in a 3L flask ?

 

[stux]

The risk is that it will take the yeast longer to colonize the larger starter and that is when infection can take hold. Bacteria multiplies faster than yeast.

Also, don't forget yeast nutrient

The yeast needs nutrients, food and oxygen and not too much alcohol to grow.

Stirred starters with nutrients provide most of these conditions to get as much practical growth as your wort will provide.

 

[Ollieb]

Hey guys - I have never chilled a starter and pitched just the slurry...

I have only ever pitched the entire starter (usually about 1- 1.5L starter that I make on a stir plate).

I am really interested to know the benefits of chilling the starter and pitching just the slurry (assumed at room temp).

By not doing this are you at risk of introducing a funky flavour to your beer or an infection or what?

Sorry if this is slightly off topic...

Ollie

 

[Yob]

The starter will undoubtedly be oxidised and if the beer you are pitching to can't mask it you may pick up that flavour, more important for say lagers than ipa styles etc.

 

[Ollieb]

The starter will undoubtedly be oxidised and if the beer you are pitching to can't mask it you may pick up that flavour, more important for say lagers than ipa styles etc.

Thanks Yob - that makes sense I guess. I will be sure to try this next time.

 

[ianh]

To me one advantage of chilling a starter is that it just needs decanting and allowed to warm up and it is ready to go. Also allows me to make the starter using wort from the previous brew.

My procedure split smack pack 5 ways, store at 1C. Put one in 500 ml of wort on stirrer for 24 hours. Add 1000ml of wort and allow to ferment on stirrer for a further 24-48 hours, store at 1C. When ready to ferment brew, decant most of liquid from starter and allow to come up to 18- 20C. Pitch the starter.

Generally I try and use the smack packs within 12 months of maunfacture, last starter 1768PC manufactured Oct 2013 if I remember correctly.

 

[LiquidGold]

While on the topic of pitching a decanted starter. I did this for the first time on a batch a while back and although I had given the decanted yeast time to warm up I found it hard to pour it out of the flask so I racked a bit of the wort from the fermenter I was about to pitch into, gave it a swirl then pitched. Just wondering what everyone else does in this regard.

 

[Ollieb]

While on the topic of pitching a decanted starter. I did this for the first time on a batch a while back and although I had given the decanted yeast time to warm up I found it hard to pour it out of the flask so I racked a bit of the wort from the fermenter I was about to pitch into, gave it a swirl then pitched. Just wondering what everyone else does in this regard.

Yeah what he says! I too would like to know peoples thought on this question from LiquidGold... that is one of the main reasons I have always left wort in my starters as I sometimes find the slurry sticks in the flask and does not all come out into the wort you want to pitch into...

So LiquidGolds solution is just that ... gold... but I am probably not experienced enough to confirm if it is a good idea or not??
Cheers

 

[Spiesy]

I always leave a little bit of wort to swish around and mix all the yeast up prior to decanting. A couple hundred mills of spent wort into 20-odd litres isn't going to be noticeable.

 

[tateg]

Hi guys
Any thoughts on how the below looks, I am used to the yeast dropping out but this one just just won't it is wyeast 1318 stepped up