Yeast pitching.....FFS there is enough in pack

[NewtownClown]

Underpitched? Not if you have been listening to the flat-earthers.

 

[Bizier]

One word: viability.

It decreases quicker than most will accept.

 

[Nick JD]

Pitching a 2 month old smackpack is like a 90 year old man donating sperm.

 

[Yob]

500 ml to 2 liters sounds good to me, but the 6 vials I mentioned are what is needed with a starter according to Mr Malty, unless I have it wrong. I have used old vials in a starter before, I must have massively underpitched if I needed 6 vials along with a starter.

I bet you will still have the check viability by date box ticked (and the old date), of course, when you have made a starter (fully fermented out) the viability is reset to almost 100%.. 90-95% is a good target

@ Nick

 

[jyo]

So following Nick's analogy, I am reckoning that the old bloke above has been frequently agitating the old Erlenmeyer to keep his yeast viable.

 

[seamad]

mr malty is shit.
use this: http://www.yeastcalc.com/

 

[jc64]

I bet you will still have the check viability by date box ticked (and the old date), of course, when you have made a starter (fully fermented out) the viability is reset to almost 100%.. 90-95% is a good target

@ Nick

Yep cheers YOB, so if I use my old vial in a 500ml starter to wake them up, then calculate what size starter to step up to using my 500ml batch as the equivalent of one vial I'm on the right track? Does that sound correct?

 

[Yob]

ball park.. others are fussier with numbers but Im shit at maths so Im very ballpark... should at least get you to the right game sort of thing...

Wolfy has some good threads on calcing yeast but I get lost real quick so Im a bit rough and tumble..

Seamads link Ive also played with but again.. bit too scientific for me.. I kind of like the lick the thumb approach

 

[Kudzu]

Can I ask a stupid slightly off-topic question? I have no experience with liquid yeast yet. I'm seeing all this talk of several litre starters and am wondering if this effects the amount of trub you end up with?

If I pitch a pack of dry yeast I generally end up with about 1 litre of trub.

If I'm pitching more yeast to begin with than I normally end up with at the end of fermentation will I end up with a massive trub once it's all done? Or am I missing something?

 

[Bizier]

Can I ask a stupid slightly off-topic question? I have no experience with liquid yeast yet. I'm seeing all this talk of several litre starters and am wondering if this effects the amount of trub you end up with?

If I pitch a pack of dry yeast I generally end up with about 1 litre of trub.

If I'm pitching more yeast to begin with than I normally end up with at the end of fermentation will I end up with a massive trub once it's all done? Or am I missing something?

Not at all stupid, amount of yeast, viability and oxygenation (and nutrients) will have massive influence over the final amount of yeast. This is something you can control as part of the art of brewing to provide flavour differences.

If I actually brewed occasionally at home, I would still ballpark it with a starter to get more hungry daughter cells made and pitch those with like 99.9% viability plus whatever octogenarian grandmas I purchased.

Lower O2 and you will have less trub because aerobic phase will be short and whatever is there will basically focus on just eating rather than multiplying.

 

[Nick JD]

Can I ask a stupid slightly off-topic question? I have no experience with liquid yeast yet. I'm seeing all this talk of several litre starters and am wondering if this effects the amount of trub you end up with?

If I pitch a pack of dry yeast I generally end up with about 1 litre of trub.

If I'm pitching more yeast to begin with than I normally end up with at the end of fermentation will I end up with a massive trub once it's all done? Or am I missing something?

The reason people pitch the correct amount is to limit some undesirable flavours, and promote desirable ones.

If you pitched just one cell (and there were zero other micro-organisms in your fermenter) you'd make beer. And still have a normal amount of trub. It's taste different to a correct pitch, and it'd probably finish with a high FG, but it'd be beer.

As Bizier says, people worry about pitch rates and then pitch into wort with inadequate oxygen. Pitch calcs assume you are oxygenating optimally, when almost no one is. One of the reasons why K&K beers do okay with 6g of yeast is probably due to the tap water having all that oxygen.

I work on the rule that close is good enough.

 

[tricache]

So following Nick's analogy, I am reckoning that the old bloke above has been frequently agitating the old Erlenmeyer to keep his yeast viable.

Hang on...where is the stir plate?

 

[QldKev]

I used to get the exact pitch rate using mr malty, but lately I feel I may be miscounting a yeast cell or two.

 

[bum]

I used to get the exact pitch rate using mr malty, but lately I feel I may be miscounting a yeast cell or two.

Shit beer 'round at Kev's house!

I can lend you a cell or two, if you like. I need them back though.

 

[AndrewQLD]

Certainly is confusing, the difference between these two calculators one and two is HUGE. 44g of dry yeast for one and 22g for the other both calculating a 23lt lager @1.050.
I wonder which one is right :blink: .

 

[Kudzu]

The reason people pitch the correct amount is to limit some undesirable flavours, and promote desirable ones.

If you pitched just one cell (and there were zero other micro-organisms in your fermenter) you'd make beer. And still have a normal amount of trub. It's taste different to a correct pitch, and it'd probably finish with a high FG, but it'd be beer.

As Bizier says, people worry about pitch rates and then pitch into wort with inadequate oxygen. Pitch calcs assume you are oxygenating optimally, when almost no one is. One of the reasons why K&K beers do okay with 6g of yeast is probably due to the tap water having all that oxygen.

I work on the rule that close is good enough.

Yeah no worries, I wasn't questioning the need for adequate pitching rates. I was just wondering how pitching large amounts of liquid yeast effects the trub (if it does). For example, someone said earlier in the thread they sometimes use a six litre starter, does that mean 6 litres of yeast? Do you end up with a 6 litre trub, more? less? Or is it just normal?

 

[jc64]

With a six liter starter I would think you decant off the liquid and just pitch the yeast.

 

[Nick JD]

Yeah no worries, I wasn't questioning the need for adequate pitching rates. I was just wondering how pitching large amounts of liquid yeast effects the trub (if it does). For example, someone said earlier in the thread they sometimes use a six litre starter, does that mean 6 litres of yeast? Do you end up with a 6 litre trub, more? less? Or is it just normal?

If you are making a 6L starter, you're best to throw in some hops to your LDME boil and make 6L of beer and bottle it instead of tipping it down the sink.

 

[bradsbrew]

If you are making a 6L starter, you're best to throw in some hops to your LDME boil and make 6L of beer and bottle it instead of tipping it down the sink.

Holy crap, had to read that twice. But I think I know what you meant Nick. If I was new to brewing I would have taken that as, throw in some hops and some LDME into the starter and boil.

But if they are making a 6L starter they would not have 6L of beer?

 

[treefiddy]

There is a Maibock recipe by Jamil Z that requires a 15 L starter for a 19 L batch.


Mind you it is a big beer, but I can't but help think that anyone who recommends a 15 L starter, or $50 worth of wyeast packs is a bit of a twat.

If you are making a 6L starter, you're best to throw in some hops to your LDME boil and make 6L of beer and bottle it instead of tipping it down the sink.

Half a slab from a starter, you'd be bonkers not to.