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Yeast Not Behaving In Conical

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ianmowat

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any one had this with a conical? after primary ,yeast floats to top and STAYS there....same prob with s189,w2112 +us05.....no settling at all

all fermented at optimum temps and only these last 3 giving problem...no plug at all...beer is fine...what gives???ian
 

Kranky

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1. How do you know that primary is over?

2. How long has the yeast sat there for?

3. I take it that you are using a plastic conical in order to see it?
 

ianmowat

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1. How do you know that primary is over?

2. How long has the yeast sat there for?

3. I take it that you are using a plastic conical in order to see it?
gravity is dwn to1.010 (after 7 days ) the one drawback with stainless is that u can't see what is happening

i lost patience and took the lid off ( to see why straight beer was coming out the bottom)
 

Jace89

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Are you crash chilling the beer at all? I've had trouble with US 05 usually a few days cold helps it floc out.
 

Kranky

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gravity is dwn to1.010 (after 7 days ) the one drawback with stainless is that u can't see what is happening

i lost patience and took the lid off ( to see why straight beer was coming out the bottom)
I think there's your problem - you need more patience. Wait it out for several more days (more if necessary) and ffs don't take the lid off. Depending on your starting gravity, grains used, mash temperatures and fermenting temperature the yeast may not be finished.
 

fraser_john

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I've used a stainless conical for ten years and never had a problem with yeast not settling.
 

brendanos

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+1 to patience. Relax, don't worry, have a homebrew. It will settle out when it's done. US05 is a notoriously poor flocculator and may require filtration if you want bright beer (but the bulk of the yeast will still floc like any other yeast).
 

fraser_john

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If the issue occurs with S189, that is a bit of a worry! Being a lager yeast it should settle to the bottom pretty quick in the first day or two after krausen and remain there until fermentation done, especially at 10c!!!

When you say straight (u mean clear?) beer comming from bottom of conical, I assume you have a dump port at the point of the cone of the conical right? Not pulling it out of a racking port that may be well above the yeast plug level?

At minimum, I would expect some cold trub to have settled at 10c and be ready to drain off, it does in mine, and for a lager I always drain it away after the first day and fermentation is active.

Bit odd and not behaving very conically.
 

ianmowat

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If the issue occurs with S189, that is a bit of a worry! Being a lager yeast it should settle to the bottom pretty quick in the first day or two after krausen and remain there until fermentation done, especially at 10c!!!

When you say straight (u mean clear?) beer comming from bottom of conical, I assume you have a dump port at the point of the cone of the conical right? Not pulling it out of a racking port that may be well above the yeast plug level?

At minimum, I would expect some cold trub to have settled at 10c and be ready to drain off, it does in mine, and for a lager I always drain it away after the first day and fermentation is active.

Bit odd and not behaving very conically.
thats right, drinkable clear beer coming out the bottom dump port...very little cold trub makes it in on my system...have another US05 ready now and will pull down to 0 fo a few days to see how it goes.
 

ianmowat

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thats right, drinkable clear beer coming out the bottom dump port...very little cold trub makes it in on my system...have another US05 ready now and will pull down to 0 fo a few days to see how it goes.
kegged today after 1 week at 0.....yeast still not coming out right...looked like spew (very runny) beer looks fine
 

QldKev

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what is the angle of the conical bottom?


conical.gif
 

Jazzafish

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kegged today after 1 week at 0.....yeast still not coming out right...looked like spew (very runny) beer looks fine
First generation of yeast?
Or has it been harvested a few times and up to a few generations?

If it is an old culture, I'm thinking maybe the selection process has led to a lighter/dusty yeast culture that wants to stay in suspension? In theory you want to take the middle third of the cake... but hard to see in SS so easy to take more of the last third I guess?

There has to be a portion of yeast at the bottom when a beer is fermenting. As the gas rises out of the solution from the bottom part of the ferment, it will take lighter yeast to the top with it. It will stay there until it flocculates, which will make it heavier and sink to form a cake. So in some time should have something in the cone. Suggest you shut the blow off valve when a few points off your terminal gravity, to get some positive pressure from the top. May help? Then crash chill for at least 3 days to encourage a cake being formed.

EDIT: Your chilling for a week, so should see something a bit more solid
 

MHB

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Yeast slurry is a Non-Newtonian Fluid; if you want a good example think of very thick custard.
The cones of conical fermenters must be reasonably steep (60 [sup]o[/sup]& 90[sup]o[/sup] are both pretty common but mostly the first because its a circle cone thats easy to make and forms an equilateral triangle).
Commercially they are also polished to death, usually electro polished so the yeast slides off easier the home brew ones are just buffed nowhere near as smooth and nowhere near as good at shedding yeast.
If you put some custard in a funnel (put your finger over the end) then some water on top, remove the finger and the middle will fall out of the custard, then the water and a bits of custard mixed together will flow out, when the water is gone the last of the custard will gloop out in other words a real mess.
Try taping on the cone or the bottom tap with a bit of wood, this will help dethatch the yeast from the walls and have it fall into the cone, then remove the yeast in small portions (couple of hundred mills), maybe giving the cone a bit of a tap and a rest before drawing more.
Mark
 

beersom

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Yeast slurry is a Non-Newtonian Fluid; if you want a good example think of very thick custard.
The cones of conical fermenters must be reasonably steep (60 [sup]o[/sup]& 90[sup]o[/sup] are both pretty common but mostly the first because its a circle cone thats easy to make and forms an equilateral triangle).
Commercially they are also polished to death, usually electro polished so the yeast slides off easier the home brew ones are just buffed nowhere near as smooth and nowhere near as good at shedding yeast.
If you put some custard in a funnel (put your finger over the end) then some water on top, remove the finger and the middle will fall out of the custard, then the water and a bits of custard mixed together will flow out, when the water is gone the last of the custard will gloop out in other words a real mess.
Try taping on the cone or the bottom tap with a bit of wood, this will help dethatch the yeast from the walls and have it fall into the cone, then remove the yeast in small portions (couple of hundred mills), maybe giving the cone a bit of a tap and a rest before drawing more.
Mark
Great analogy and great advice Mark. That is just how it can behave sometimes in our big conicals too... it is very easy to punch a hole in the yeast.
 

ianmowat

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Shud have stated that it was a first gen yeast with the us05.....2nd with the 2112....

cone is at least 60 degrees or steeper

will experiment with pressure next time....the thing that puzzles me most is why did it work normally the first few times??
 

jayse

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Can't really help nail down what your issue may be but I have been finding the opposite with us05 as it clears perfectly in the conicals but more often then not it does not flocc properly in the flat bottomed pilot brewery fermenters leaving beer that refuses to clear by itself.
In the conicals we chill down to 4c slowly over 7 odd days going down 2c or thereabouts a day, it would be under half a bar pressure and never had a problem, we yeast off pretty much every day from the start.

Good luck with getting to the bottom of what your problem may be.
 

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