Yeast Instructions Really Necessary?

[Samuel Adams]

"maintain a gentle stirring for another 30 minutes"

Does this mean a constant stir or will walking away then coming back every 5min or so and giving it a stir be fine ?

 

[bear09]

I always run on my dried yeast for two or three generations, not so much for cost but to ensure quick starts.

I highly recommend that everyone one this thread (and many others) source a copy of the book 'Yeast'. Some info in this thread has been extracted from Yeast (in regards to rehydrating) and for me since following this I have had much better results with dried yeasts.

Looking at the comment from BribieG above, there is a section in the Yeast book that talks about lag time and why it is BAD I repeat BAD to have a very quick lag time. This book goes into immense detail (most of it over my head) but it does break things right down to the science. Most home brewers including me always want signs of activity ASAP when putting on a new brew but this is not always best - like a lot of things we may think.

Anyhow my point is the Yeast book is great - it has helped me and it may help you too. I got mine for $17 delivered to my house from some UK book site.

PS - Bribie, Iam certainly not having a crack at you in any way whatsoever. After my little rant here I am still a big believer in "what works for you works for you".

Cheers.

 

[.DJ.]

why would no lag time be bad? Interesting!

 

[Greg.L]

Wineries always rehydrate the yeast - no exceptions, also recommended for cider. You only need 20min in 35C water for most yeast.
For small batches of beer I don't think it matters so much but you will get a better start to the ferment.

 

[peas_and_corn]

why would no lag time be bad? Interesting!

On one of the BN casts Jamil said that a short lag time can be an indicator that the yeast didn't have enough time to absorb enough nutrients through the cell walls, which if that did happen would result in a poor ferment.

 

[Yob]

You only need 20min in 35C water for most yeast.

Ive read this on a few instructions but never been able to bring myself to rehydrate yeast at this temperature.. just doesnt 'feel' right...

for me it's 15-20 min in 100ml boiled cooled water (25'c max) and then add 100ml of runnings at same temp, leave for 30 min and the thing is trying to climb out of the Pyrex jug..

I love proofing dried yeast and will probably never sprinke again h34r:

Cheers

 

[felten]

Each yeast strain has a different rehydration temperature and you should definitely follow the manufacturers instructions, as too high or too low could both have negative affects.

http://koehlerbeer.com/2008/06/07/rehydrat...r-clayton-cone/ check that article out.

 

[manticle]

Ive read this on a few instructions but never been able to bring myself to rehydrate yeast at this temperature.. just doesnt 'feel' right...

Remember you are not fermenting at this temp. 35 degrees is too hot for yeast to ferment in regards to the preferred flavour compounds that end up in the beer but not too hot for yeast per se.

If I am going to bother rehydrating, I'll do it using the method the manufacturer suggests (hardly use dried and rarely rehydrate when I do).

 

[Pennywise]

Rehydrating in too cold water can also be detrimental to the yeast, if no-one has done it before I get home I'll give the referance, but for the life of me I can't remember why ATM. Only feckin' read it yesterday to

 

[haysie]

Probably just another method of homebrewing being over analysed. Some cold hard competition results i.e slant, slurry, fresh pack, dry sprinkle, dry rehydrated, dry slurry would be interesting. I would be tipping award winning beers come from any of the above methods time and time again. I have read a few chapters of the yeast book and found it all a bit contradicting, scientific and " I SELL YEAST " screaming at me.

 

[Pennywise]

Rehydrating in too cold water can also be detrimental to the yeast, if no-one has done it before I get home I'll give the referance, but for the life of me I can't remember why ATM. Only feckin' read it yesterday to

To quote book, "Do not attempt to rehydrate the yeast in cold water. Warmth is critical to the cell during the first moments of reconstituting it's fragile cell membrane. Lower temperatures result in more cell material leeching out of the cell during rehydration, which permanantly damages the cell"

Then basically goes on to say that a death rate of up to 50% (same as dry pitching) can result

Good enough for me I reckon

 

[Pennywise]

I would be tipping award winning beers come from any of the above methods time and time again.

I agree

 

[milob40]

ok :blink: :beer:

 

[MHB]

I'm finding the White & Zainasheff a bit of a struggle. The references to dry yeast are just about the importance of rehydration; in an industry where dry yeast plays such an important role (well over half) I think it's a bit self-serving to treat it with such disdain.

Personally I am also very suspicious of that 50% kill number that keeps getting quoted, yes back in the old days it was true but with modern freeze dried "Active Yeast" I have yet to see any documented evidence that this is the case.

Knowing full well that this subject gets chewed over every six months or so (Done to ******* death) on AHB I'll just stick to what I've been saying for the last 4-5 years "Follow the Manufacturer's Instructions" in the case of Fermentis on the packet it says "Sprinkle into wort" If you go to their website it offers alternative instructions (not better or worse alternate), do one or the other not some halfarsed short cut method - unless you know more about yeast than the people at Fermentis - follow the manufacturer's instructions precisely.

Please don't get me started on the bit at the back of the book on capturing wild yeast guaranteed to have you screaming for a pure culture preferably a White Labs one no doubt.

MHB

 

[felten]

I'm finding the White & Zainasheff a bit of a struggle. The references to dry yeast are just about the importance of rehydration; in an industry where dry yeast plays such an important role (well over half) I think it's a bit self-serving to treat it with such disdain.

Personally I am also very suspicious of that 50% kill number that keeps getting quoted, yes back in the old days it was true but with modern freeze dried "Active Yeast" I have yet to see any documented evidence that this is the case.

Dr. Clayton Cone says the same thing about cell death here, and he works for lallemand AFAIK.

I view the instructions to pitch the yeast straight into the beer as a 'lowest common denominator' approach, just like the kit beer instructions that tell you to ferment at 25c+. Sure it will work, and you'll make beer, but could you be making it any better by putting some more effort into it?

 

[bum]

Hopefully I'm remembering correctly, but he also goes on to say that if the yeast is just sprinkled on top it's detrimental to the strengthening of the cell walls, which can lead to unwanted byproducts leeching into the wort, which otherwise would not have been had it been done correctly.

I haven't read that book but this is exactly what used to be the common line of advice here when I started brewing (back before lazy brewing became king around these parts).

I'm interested in reading Yeast but, in all honesty, I can't get excited enough about it to actually fork out the cash. Can't help thinking it'll just produce more one-man's-opinion as commonly accepted fact, a-la How To Brew.

 

[MHB]

Dr. Clayton Cone says the same thing about cell death here, and he works for lallemand AFAIK.

I view the instructions to pitch the yeast straight into the beer as a 'lowest common denominator' approach, just like the kit beer instructions that tell you to ferment at 25c+. Sure it will work, and you'll make beer, but could you be making it any better by putting some more effort into it?

Yes I have read that before (it gets posted by the yeast rehydraters every 6 months or so) I believe it quite correct. And if anyone did exactly as recommended they would get very good results.

You find me 1 set of recommendations on AHB for yeast rehydration that follows the instruction as given. You won't, it's the old rehydration is good so chuck your yeast in some water and hope for the best line. Even tho the article being quoted implies that can do more harm than good.

If anyone wants to get the best from dry yeast (one more time) follow the manufacturer's instructions precisely.

MHB

 

[haysie]

Lazy brewing? How do you do that, please share as I`m goddamn sick n tired of starters, cleaning flasks, mash tuns, kettles, bottles, hosing, kegs, creating recipes, milling grain, ordering stocks, rousing yeast, measuring gravity, setting tempmates etc. I dont find anything lazy about brewing. Back on topic....hmm what was it again I`m to busy brewing.

 

[bum]

Lazy brewing? How do you do that, please share as I`m goddamn sick n tired of starters, cleaning flasks, mash tuns, kettles, bottles, hosing, kegs, creating recipes, milling grain, ordering stocks, rousing yeast, measuring gravity, setting tempmates etc.

I'm sure Nick will be happy to sort you out.

 

[haysie]

I'm sure Nick will be happy to sort you out.

:huh: Nevermind, tongue in cheek.

edit, ahhhh I get it now... It is Sunday :slaps the forehead icon: