Working Out Grain And Boil Volumes?

[Acasta]

I've been researching into All Grain / Partials, and i need a way to work out how much malt to put with how much water and get a OG im after.
If that made no sence, I wanna know how much grain to use when doing a 15L boil, then making a 20-25L batch out of it.
Any equations of rules of thumb that I can apply would be great.

Also, is there a was to downsize recipes of AG i find in the same way? Im thinking i should get some softwear or something...
Thanks.

P.s. Whats BB stand for when talking about a grani?

 

[haysie]

Brewtoolz

Here`s a good freebie!

 

[marksfish]

beersmith or promash, barret burston.

 

[Acasta]

i have beersmish and promash haha, hard to learn them but.

 

[manticle]

Rule of thumb is between 2.5 and 3 kg of water per kg of grain. This can vary depending on what you're making and how you're making it - not sure if BIAB operates on a different principle but worth checking if that's the method you want to use.

BB granni is Barret Burston's Grandmother. The recipe development software I use is recipator.org but it won't calculate as much as beersmith or protools - you have to manually enter some things in. Pretty easy to follow generally though - if you get confused feel free to ask me any questions and I'll try and help. Otherwise try haysie's link.

There are some good guides to AG and partial brewing (look in the wiki section for partial mash starter) and reading both how to brew and designing great beers is a thing you could do that will help in the long run. No good brewing AG beer if you have no idea what you are doing. Run, walk etc.

 

[sydneyhappyhour]

Rule of thumb is between 2.5 and 3 kg of water per kg of grain. This can vary depending on what you're making and how you're making it - not sure if BIAB operates on a different principle but worth checking if that's the method you want to use.

BB granni is Barret Burston's Grandmother. The recipe development software I use is recipator.org but it won't calculate as much as beersmith or protools - you have to manually enter some things in. Pretty easy to follow generally though - if you get confused feel free to ask me any questions and I'll try and help. Otherwise try haysie's link.

There are some good guides to AG and partial brewing (look in the wiki section for partial mash starter) and reading both how to brew and designing great beers is a thing you could do that will help in the long run. No good brewing AG beer if you have no idea what you are doing. Run, walk etc.

Cheers Manticle I had wondered about this too, always just fudged the the volumes when I only had smaller pots and the beers came out tasting good, but in the back of my mind I figured there must be some sort of "role of the thumb" for the water volume.

 

[michaelcocks]

Beersmith
best software I ever bought
you can get 30 days use free ... Then buy it if you like it.

 

[Acasta]

Manticle, how do i find the wiki section? :unsure:

Yeah i have beersmith, im just going back to my first question, can i enter in someone else recipe then get it to calculate different volumes for me?
ie, turn a 50l batch into a 23L or 10L?
Thanks mate.

 

[Frank]

Manticle, how do i find the wiki section? :unsure:

Yeah i have beersmith, im just going back to my first question, can i enter in someone else recipe then get it to calculate different volumes for me?
ie, turn a 50l batch into a 23L or 10L?
Thanks mate.

Yes, put in a full recipe and use the 'Scale' function. Have a play, change 50l to 15l and back again to make sure you are using it right. Set efficiency to 65% the first time.

 

[manticle]

Manticle, how do i find the wiki section? :unsure:

Quick link for now: http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum//ind...hp?showforum=42

but basically just go to the main menu (click aussiehomebrewer on the left) rather than latest threads. Wiki is at the top of the subforum list.

Loads of good info in there. Should be stickied into all latest threads

 

[Fourstar]

a nice little rule i used for my BJCP exam for recipe formulation which is insanely easy to remember are as follows:

assuming a 75% Brewhouse efficiency and 23L final volume (if you are not achieving this, your OG will be out come your final volume however.)

- 1kg malt = 1.010 OG
- 1L to 1kg of spent grain is your grain loss post mash/sparge and i add 1L~ for mashtun deadspace losses.
- assume a boil off of around 5L (15-16%~) per hour and around 2L of losses (trub etc) (so lets say 7)
- a liquor to grist ratio of 2.8:1 for mash in (my standard mash)

so in a recipe:

5kg pils is equal to 1.050 OG @ 23L after a 60 minute boil

so mash in is equal to: 5kg*2.8L per kg of grain = 14L

23L is our final volume, minus the mash in we are left with the following to make it up = 9L

7L are our losses to the kettle
6L are losses to the mashtun

so 9L + 7L + 6L = 22L sparge liquor.

Total liquor used in mash and sparge 22+14 = 36L.

:icon_cheers:

Confused? i hope not! :icon_chickcheers:

The water calcs can be used on any grist size or BH efficiency, if your efficiencies are differnt to 75% you will have to adjust your water volumes to suit your grist size obviously. Also, the losses will vary due to mash tun geometry and your evaporation rates/losses etc. so its a good guide to start with.

 

[moonshine]

I've been useing http://sourceforge.net/projects/brewtarget/ and highly recomend it (foss software) ie free as in speach (maybe not as comprihensive as some of the other tools out there but surves my purposes adiquately

 

[Wardhog]

Definitely enter someone else's recipe (you can then modify it to make it your own) and tweak the batch size to suit yours with the scaling feature. I can't speak for Beersmith, but Promash can definitely do this.

 

[Acasta]

Confused? i hope not! :icon_chickcheers:

Did i mention im still new and i don't know half the words of phrases you said! haha
I got the jist of it but.
Things to clarify:
liquor: Define.
Mashtun: Define
You say FV 23L = Mash in was 14L + 9L water?. to make up 23L?
I understand losses and which one is which, but this confuses me; "so 9L + 7L + 6L = 22L sparge liquor." 9L of water to add? + 7L lost in boil and trub + 6L (mashtun?) = 22L sparge liquor (this figure confuses me, what is it?)
Also, explain "Total liquor used in mash and sparge 22+14 = 36L."

Definition of Liquor "An alcoholic beverage made by distillation rather than by fermentation."

Thanks mate.

 

[Screwtop]

Did i mention im still new and i don't know half the words of phrases you said! haha
I got the jist of it but.
Things to clarify:
liquor: Define.
Mashtun: Define
You say FV 23L = Mash in was 14L + 9L water?. to make up 23L?
I understand losses and which one is which, but this confuses me; "so 9L + 7L + 6L = 22L sparge liquor." 9L of water to add? + 7L lost in boil and trub + 6L (mashtun?) = 22L sparge liquor (this figure confuses me, what is it?)
Also, explain "Total liquor used in mash and sparge 22+14 = 36L."

Definition of Liquor "An alcoholic beverage made by distillation rather than by fermentation."

Thanks mate.

Thought Forstar's post was excellent, obviously you are very new to the terms etc. Tun = Tank/Vessel/Container, Mash Tun = Vessel used for mashing the grist. Grist = Ground up grains etc. Brewing Liquor = Water plus any salts or water treatment (in most hombrewing situations, Liquor = Water). HLT = Hot Liquor Tun (tank used for preparing/heating your brewing liquor). FV = Fermentation Vessel

FV = 23L (you want 23L in your Fermenter)
Mash in 14L (Fourstar explained that he was using 5kg of grain with a liquor to grist ratio of 2.8L per kg of grain, this = 14L of liquor/water)

23L is our final volume, minus the mash in we are left with the following to make it up = 9L

Final volume = in the fermenter, So you want 23L in the fermenter and have added 14L to the mash tun. So you need another 9L of liquor!

1L to 1kg of spent grain is your grain loss post mash

There will be retention of moisture by the grain. Means that of the 14L that 1L will be retained per 1 kg of grain after draining (5Kg will retain 5L). So 14L - 5L = 9L

add 1L~ for mashtun deadspace losses

There will be space in the bottom of the tun, not all of the wort can be drained off, this amount will depend upon mashtun geometry and manifold design.

This explains that after draining the mashtun, of the original 14L you will only have 8L of wort due to losses (14 - 5 - 1)

assume a boil off of around 5L (15-16%~) per hour and around 2L of losses (trub etc) (so lets say 7)

During boiling losses will occur due to evaporation, Fourstar's example is 7L



Fourstar explained that after adding 14L to the mash you still need 9L to provide the target of 23L, however the losses above need to be added to this figure. To replace the amounts lost during the process and maintain the required finished volume.

You say:

this confuses me; "so 9L + 7L + 6L = 22L sparge liquor.

Hope you can now see that the 9L was what was required to reach the 23L target. Losses need to be added to this 9L. Add the boiloff volume of 7L and the Mashtun loss of 6L (5l grain retention and 1L deadspace).

So there 9L + 7L + 6L = 22L of Sparge liquor.

Peice a piss, this brewing game eh!

Screwy

 

[Fourstar]

...
Peice a piss, this brewing game eh!

Screwy

Now im confused! h34r:

:lol:

 

[Acasta]

so 22L sparge... Meaning u have to Add 22L of "water" to the fermentor? This seems alot to me?

 

[MeLoveBeer]

so 22L sparge... Meaning u have to Add 22L of "water" to the fermentor? This seems alot to me?

Sparging is the process of rinsing the grains in the mash tun after the original rich wort (commonly called first runnings) has been drained out. It allows you to rinse the extracted sugars out of the grain.

It might be worth checking out the online version of John Palmers book "How to Brew", it has a great couple of chapters that explain the complete process and the terminology used.

 

[Acasta]

Will do! thanks mate.

 

[Acasta]

Ok after reading and thinking i think i got it! haha
Thanks guys.