Wolfy's 3v Stainless Home-brewery Build Details

[JaseH]

What about the 22mm one? http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Tungsten-Tipped...=item27b0663c8e No dremel needed to enlarge the hole.

Your better off with the 20mm and rat tail file or dremel to file out the hole a little. It will be a much snugger fit and then you can use a notched lock nut with a silicon o-ring combo to seal it up. I have used both(22mm and a 20mm). With the 22mm hole saw the hole is ever so slightly larger than the fitting and an o-ring/lock nut combo will not seal properly so you end up having to use a silicon flat washer instead.

The notched lock nut and o-ring is very good if you can get away with it as you can tighten the fitting down hard so it is metal against metal and there is no movement. The 22mm hole with silicon flat washer seals fine but you cant tighten it down hard enough to be a solid mounting and it tends to work lose and move around a bit when operating ball valves etc.

 

[sponge]

Yup, just the reason I posted the second link after finding that first one. Really doesnt seem adequate for use on SS as you pointed out.

I was just looking at the second one, and grabbing either the 20mm or 22mm, and the 32mm for the element I have. As you said, the 22mm would probably make the dremel fairly redundant, although I do have one already just incase. Just didn't want the hole being too big, and would rather start smaller and work up to the right size, especially with all the fittings being 1/2" NPT.


Sponge

 

[Wolfy]

The only stuff I know about TCT hole saws is what I've been told by others - so I'm not the person to ask, but I'm glad others answered your questions.

The first main thing was covered by Frothie, in that it's better to use the slightly smaller 20mm hole saw and enlarge the hole just a fraction, than have a (22mm) hole that is slightly too big.

Secondly, the 'quality' of the hole saw can be determined by the number of 'teeth' it has, so when comparing hole saws try to choose the one with the most teeth, since these do all the cutting work.

 

[keifer33]

You can also get q max punches that are suitable if you have ss less than 16 gauge (about 1.5mm)

 

[Wolfy]

#8: Fittings (revisited)

As mentioned in Update #5, most plumbing fittings came from the USA or China, but obviously (other paying usually high shipping costs) it takes at least 2 weeks or longer for stuff to get here. Now that I have the majority of the equipment and fittings (and kegs are getting empty) I want to start brewing, however when I did a mock-fit-out, I was missing a small number of critical fittings and did not want to wait weeks for them to get here. So today I visited a local stainless-fittings supplier and as a result, one of the claims I made earlier turns out to be true, while another is not necessarily so - so I thought I'd better provide an update.

Earlier I said: "Chinese Ebay fittings (which are probably exactly the same as all the others anyway) averaged out at about 20-40% cheaper". This cost-information was based on telephone or online quotes from 3 local suppliers (Geordi, ProChem and Hoze Joint). Geordi are friendly and helpful, and if you show up at their premises, pay cash, maybe explain you are a home-brewer, they will often give a discounted price - I saved 20% off the phone-quoted price of some stainless pipe for example.

If you telephone ProChem to ask for a price on something as simple as a 1/2 inch stainless nipple, the quote can vary from $20 (in-house manufactured high quality), to $4 (standard quality NPT) to under $2 (cast BSP). But I only understood this after I went into their office/warehouse and essentially said I just wanted the cheapest fittings possible, because home-brewing is not going to put the fittings under pressure or stress, that I didn't care if they are NPT or BSP or if the fittings are 304 or 316 stainless. Once they understood I didn't need high-tech industrial grade fittings, much of their stuff turned out to be cheaper than American or Chinese Ebay prices - and the ProChem fittings are noticeably higher quality and finish than the Ebay ones - obviously they don't deliver to your door for that price, but they are worth talking to if you live close to one of their locations.

Even though I was wrong about Ebay always being cheaper, at least I was not wrong about BSP and NPT fittings being inter-changeable at 1/2 inch size:

From left: American NPT camlock, Australian BSP nipple, Chinese NPT cross, Australian BSP elbow, Chinese NPT nipple.
All these fittings fit snugly and with or without plumbing tape are tight and secure. At 1/2 inch size the only real difference between the NPT and BSP fittings is a difference in thread-pitch, so with some plumbing tape and a little care they all mate together without issue (but I'll make sure I provide an update if I drip boiling wort all over my toes once they are in use).

If you're not yet confused about NTP, BSP, Australian, Chinese or American, the other thing to mention is buying stainless washers - which are required make sure the silicon washers fit tightly and help make the tapered thread fitting bulkheads sit snugly against the side of the kegs. Washer suppliers will deal only with the internal hole-size (and the external diameter) of the washers, meaning that if you ask for "1/2 inch washers" or even explain that you want "washes to fit 1/2 inch plumbing fittings" they'll (try to) give you washers where the internal hole is 1/2 inch wide - and these wont fit onto 1/2 inch plumbing fittings (since the 1/2 inch size refers to the internal size of the fitting not the size outside the thread). I think the guy at the washer-shop said the correct size was 3/4 inch but they seem to measure 13/16 inch (if that's even a real size for washer holes I don't know), the good thing is that if you go to a dedicated industrial fasteners shop, you'll pay between 5-40cents for washers that will fit 1/2 inch plumbing fittings, but that sell for $1.50-2.00 each and home-brew shops.

 

[razz]

Great info for many brewers Wolfy , young and old. I've found that 1" npt to bsp works as good as 1/2", thread tape expected.

 

[Feldon]

For those interested, a good explanation with tables of NPT and BSP thread compatibility can be found here: http://pipeandhose.com/faceted_search/results/taxonomy%3A16

 

[WarmBeer]

Another good thing to mention is that thread tape is not just for sealing, but for getting the damn things back apart again afterwards. Without thread-tape, it's always a struggle, due to expansion/contraction during heating/cooling. The tape acts like a lubricant.

Pink tape is best, and tougher, but white tape is just as useful in these circumstances.

 

[BigDaddy]

Building something similar myself at the moment - yours looks great! I'll be following this for sure.

 

[Wolfy]

#9 Cleaning

Before everything gets fitted, I figured it was a good idea to ensure that it was clean - especially the imported fittings. All the fittings had a bath in hot water and sodium percarbonate, then a citric acid bath and a rinse in water before drying:

The kegs will also get a wash with sodium percarbonate and - especially anywhere I have drilled, cut, filed or grinded - a good scrub (with a non metallic kitchen scrub-mat-thing) with some Stainless Steel Cleaner (which contains Oxalic acid, citric acid and other random stuff including AES, K12, ETA-2NA) which should help ensure that the steel is passivated anywhere that that I've worked on it:

 

[homebrewkid]

any chance of a rough build cost or do you want to keep that private?

cheers: HBK

 

[Wolfy]

LOL, nothing about privacy, but I'm not sure I want to know.

Itemizing and adding things up, it looks like the total price will be about $750-1000
That's the total cost price, assuming that everything is purchased-new and nothing is re-used from a previous setup.
However, the actual total depends if non-purchased items are included or not (Eg hole-saws were borrowed but would have cost $50 to buy, and in theory the electric power-tools could also be included etc).

 

[WarmBeer]

Nothing says "simplicity" like a square metre of random stainless bits'n'bobs.

I envy you not your post-brew cleanup :lol:

 

[Truman42]

Hey Wolfy whats the internal diameter of the barbs on your female camlock fittings?

I have some and the diameter seemed to be quite small.
I had problems trying to prime my pump and blamed the camlock fittings coming out of the mashtun but since taking them of I still have dramas so curious to know what yours are?

 

[Wolfy]

Hey Wolfy whats the internal diameter of the barbs on your female camlock fittings?

I have some and the diameter seemed to be quite small.

I've not measured them but have noticed the same, in hindsight I should have purchased the female camlock - male-thread (rather than female camlock and hose barb) and attached the silicon hose around the male thread and got significantly less flow restriction.

 

[DanteHicks]

Was the Chickpea Marsala nice?

 

[sponge]

I've not measured them but have noticed the same, in hindsight I should have purchased the female camlock - male-thread (rather than female camlock and hose barb) and attached the silicon hose around the male thread and got significantly less flow restriction.

Exactly what I've done with my camlocks. Female parts for hoses have male threads, with the silicone tube being pushed over the top of the threads and secured with a hose clamp.

I looked at the barbs for a little bit, but decided on the thread option due to the reduced flow rate through the barbs


Sponge

 

[Truman42]

Im still having priming problems bit I think the reduced barbs may have made it worse.

 

[Wolfy]

Was the Chickpea Marsala nice?

Don't know yet, that one is unopened, but I try to keep a collection of the Indian-pocket-meals in the cupboard, just add some microwaved-rice and at about $1.50 each they make a simple, quick and tasty dinner.

Exactly what I've done with my camlocks. Female parts for hoses have male threads, with the silicone tube being pushed over the top of the threads and secured with a hose clamp.

I purchased the camlocks 6-8months ago before I realized would have been better to do it that way (spreading the new-brewery purchases over almost a year means SWMBO does not really notice the overall cost).

 

[Truman42]

........(spreading the new-brewery purchases over almost a year means SWMBO does not really notice the overall cost).

Im with you on that one brother..

 

[leahy268]

(spreading the new-brewery purchases over almost a year means SWMBO does not really notice the overall cost).

+1 to that too.. Although might be over a couple of years for me before I'm done.

 

[Wolfy]

#10: Fittings (revisited x2)

I want to stop talking about fittings and get down to brewing just as much as anyone reading this probably wants the same, however I thought it wouldn't hurt to be honest about some of the risks of being a tight-arse when buying fittings.

I mentioned earlier that the first batch of Chinese fittings were not that great quality, they'll still work fine and I'll use the fittings in non-critical areas like the sight-glass on the HLT, but still the workmanship was a bit shoddy:

The other thing to realize is that fittings do not appear to have a standard size. While they are all 1/2 inch fittings, and all mate together without much issue, the outside diameter, length and even thread-length of the fittings can vary depending on where and when they were purchased:

Each of these fittings is lined up exactly on the edge of the bench, however each is longer, taller or have longer thread-length than the other. Again it's not a major issue, however, it's something to consider if you're designing stuff that depends on specific size fittings.

In the last update I washed all the fittings (sodium percarbonate, citric acid then water rinse) and put then on a towel to dry, sure they had a few drops of water on them, but I thought nothing of it. However when looked a day later the external-body-bolts on the 3-piece ball-valve have rusted:

These were supposed to be all 316 grade stainless, and while the bolts are stamped 'A2' - which means they should be 304 grade stainless - they're clearly not if they've rusted after drying with a few spots of water on them. Interestingly these were purchased from two different Ebay vendors, so I'd guess that either the manufacturer or distributor has cut some corners or something. Both vendors were quick to offer refunds, I'll pull them apart and remove the rust and be more careful, but I presume the external-body-bolts are some inferior grade of steel which will easily rust when it gets wet, so will likely need to be replaced.

 

[notung]

Buyer beware: cheap Chinese stainless. I'm really quite surprised to see spots of rust after their first clean. Thanks a lot for the posts wolfy. I'm not planning to build a 3V rig at any time in the future but I am really finding your posts, with all their luscious close ups, super informative and enjoyable. Keep it up! :beer:

 

[Wolfy]

Buyer beware: cheap Chinese stainless. I'm really quite surprised to see spots of rust after their first clean.

Exactly, however the refund for both has already been processed, so I can't complain about that.

 

[TSMill]

Exactly what I've done with my camlocks. Female parts for hoses have male threads, with the silicone tube being pushed over the top of the threads and secured with a hose clamp.

I looked at the barbs for a little bit, but decided on the thread option due to the reduced flow rate through the barbs


Sponge

Other option is to use female threaded camlocks, coupled with a 1/2" hose tail which will give you a larger orifice than the barbed camlocks.

 

[samward]

Other option is to use female threaded camlocks, coupled with a 1/2" hose tail which will give you a larger orifice than the barbed camlocks.

That's what I am doing for the system I am currently building. I also found that the hose would often get cut up trying to get it over the male thread (I was originally using SS nipples as I could only get female threaded camlocks). Getting the silicon hose over the 1/2" (ID) hose tail seems to do less damage.

 

[Wolfy]

#11 Ball valves
Blog rant

Even after their bath in sodium percarbonate, the ball valves still had a rather nasty chemical/grease/manufacturing smell to them. Since I didn't want this in my beer, I pulled them apart and gave them a good internal clean and removed all the industrial-type grease that was packed around the ball and seals. When reassembling them I used a very small amount of food-grade keg-lube, but since they will not be turned on or off very often, it was probably not necessary. Interestingly, now that I've disassembled, cleaned and reassembled them, they actually open/close much easier than before - which is a surprise because usually I break **** when I pull it apart or it never goes back together the same.

Ball valves are probably the most common type of tap or valve used in home-brewery situations, because they can be disassembled and cleaned inside and out. 3-piece valves have more pieces and are slightly easier to clean when pulled-apart, however the 2-piece valves are just as easy to disassemble and with a rag or brush very easy to fully clean inside.

3-piece ball valves are disassembled by undoing the 4 body-bolts, and while this allows the valve to be taken apart while one end is still attached to the fitting. When reassembled two Teflon seals hold/seal the ball in place as well as providing a leak-proof seal between the three pieces of the valve. 2-piece valves are disassembled by unscrewing the two body parts, so as well as the two Teflon ball-seals, 2-piece valves have an additional smaller (and somewhat insubstantial and apparently easier to mangle) Teflon seal between the two body pieces.

Both 2 and 3-piece valves can easily be disassembled for full cleaning, and while the seals in the 3-piece valves do appear more substantial, 3-piece valves are also about 30% to 50% more expensive than similar 2-piece valves.

 

[Wolfy]

#12 Sight Glass
Blog info

A sight-glass on the HLT will help measure water into the mash and also be a visual reminder for me not to let the element in the HLT run dry. The kits from BrewHardware look good, however due to their length, postage is not very cost effective, and the similar kits I could find locally are about $60-70. In addition the information about Polycarbonate and it's relation to being food-safe did not fill me with confidence. So using the concepts from BrewHardware's kit, the sight 'glass' for the HLT is very simple; a couple of stainless elbows and nipples, a few washers, a length of silicon hose and hose clamps to hold it in place:

Since the silicon tube is not very transparent, I borrowed the little ball-thing from a kitchen kettle and added a couple of small washers that sit on the elbows so that it does not float away or get lost:

 

[Fish13]

Please i do hope you used gloves with the eta-2na

 

[kymba]

Please i do hope you used gloves with the eta-2na

keep going...