Williamswarn Personal Brewery

[Bribie G]

The clearing compound, colloidal silicon dioxide, sounds like some stuff I got from MHB a couple of years ago, silica gel was in the name I'm pretty sure, but he doesn't stock it now according to the site. Worked ok but I went back to BrewBright.

 

[rehabs_for_quitters]

The clearing agent is a filler compound found in everything from paint to drugs not what I would call revolutionary Intellectual Property that williams or warn was claiming

 

[wobbly]

Now I am defending WW as I consider it important that correct and factual information is provided

A search of the WW site dose not indicate that the clarification agent is any "Intellectual Property" and states that the product is a common product used in brewers world wide

Wobbly

 

[Dan Pratt]

Is it the co2 pressure that enable's the faster ferment or just the higher temp?

 

[Ducatiboy stu]

$50-60 per brew for the kits from HN......

Gunna buy me some kits from Coopers and re-label them as suitable for the WW and sell them on-line


A fool and his money...

 

[Ducatiboy stu]

Is it the co2 pressure that enable's the faster ferment or just the higher temp?

Damn good question. Certainly higher temps result in a faster ferment ( yeast can handle up to 40*c ). How the pressure affects ferm time and taste is the $7,299 question

 

[dent]

You don't need a WW to find out. I can crank out a lager in a week (14deg@18psi), but I do need plenty of yeast to work with.

 

[wobbly]

In view of some of the negative comments, like it being an expensive kit machine etc., posted by some at the start of this topic (I acknowledge that there has been a number of posters that have added constructive comments also) I thought it would be beneficial to post some feed back from the system designer who I have been corresponding with

At the outset it is worthwhile restating Ian Williams qualifications and experience that in my view make him eminently qualified to make a lot of the points he does.

• Formal Degree in Food Technology
• Master Brewer from the Institute of Brewers London
• Brewing Consultant at Danbrew
• Brewing Consultant at Alfred Jorgensen Laboratory
• Brew Master at Hainan Asia Pacific Breweries
• Brew Master at Tiger Brewery Singapore
• Brew Master at DB Breweries

I brought this thread and comment to Ian's attention and the following is his response.

Okay so I read some of the comments ....all wrong and that's why I stay away from these guys....they're really dumb and don't understand beer making like a brew master
Examples

1. The Cost. They have no understanding of what it costs to build something like this. It's expensive only because it's new. laptops came out at AU$25,000 in the 80's. The first flat screen was AU$30,000. That's just how it is until you're making 1000's per day. We've sold 370 of these units to 370 happy customers. The stainless cost us almost $1000 and that's first part of 100 parts
2. The void does exist. 32% of New Zealand men are ex-home brewers. 0.3% do it. The fail rate is huge because people don't know how to brew. To solve this is what we have done but it can't be done for $500. These guys are rare because they stuck at it. But for every 1 of them there are 100 who quit
3. You could set it all up your self but that's still DIY. Did you build your own oven, vacuum cleaner, fridge, espresso coffee machine, bread maker. We're an appliance as well as the worlds smallest brewery (from fermentation onwards). And we need to be doing it properly. And these guys have been brewing for years and got over the hump of making bad beers. Most men can't be bothered doing that. They want easy and properly. So I found what the reason were for 32% of all Kiwis quitting the hobby and solved it all at once
4. The ageing is a myth thing I mean that you don't have to age beer to make it good. The myth is that it needs to stand for two months in a bottle. That's untrue. 95% of the worlds beers are not aged for long periods before bottling and sold. It's a simple fact. DB here makes beer sold to 1.5 million people each week and its made in 6 days. A dark beer like that guys Irish Red will be ok after 18 months as the stale flavours may be hidden but that doesn't mean it wasn't ok a week after it was bottled if he brewed it properly. His beer will still have staling aldehydes that have increased over time and if he thinks that's fine then great. Enjoy
5. 2 - 3 months will not improve lawn mower beer. Beer is best fresh. The lawn mower beer will have increases in trans-2-nonenal, benzaldehde, 2 acetyl furan, all sorts of aldehydes. What these guys never mention is what about it is improved? They'll say "young beer flavours" and "it needs to mellow" or "soften the bitterness" such but never exactly what it is and if it was over the taste threshold for that chemical when bottled and whether they've measured it in a lab before and after 3 months and now its lower than the taste threshold and drinkable. If you're going to make a fresh brew that needs off-flavour aged out of it you're doing something wrong. That myth gets told over and over again
6. Liquid yeast is really weak. Brewers use yeast only up to 5 days max storage. That's because intracellular glycogen reserves get eaten by the yeast and so the lag phase in the next fermentation becomes really long and fermentation fails. A vial or smack pack that is 6 months old has yeast that is not really vital. Maybe viable (live) but not vital (full of energy) and so it needs the aeration of a starter to get the remaining living cells to breed and make new fresh cells full of sterols and fatty acids for cell growth during the main fermentation
7. You can use your own wort in this. Its fermentation onwards. All grainers buy this.
8. Yes aging is good for special beers like old ales and lambics. But that's 0.1% of the world beer market so I was talking about the above for "normal" beers
9. Commercial beers have a 450 million dollar turn over. To criticise them as something that is of no value is to just show a mind that works poorly. VB, Heineken, Budweiser, Corona are loved by millions of people and are valid beer styles. To knock one beer style over another is stupid. All beer is great. And to say 6 billion people have something wrong with their taste buds makes no sense. They are billion dollar brands because they are quality products. Fact. If you prefer an IPA ok, doesn't mean VB tastes like acetic acid.
10. A guy made his 3rd batch of beer in one of our breweries and beat 45 of the worlds biggest breweries in a beer comp. He was the only home brewer to have ever done that in the history of brewing. The only other guy to have done that did it this year with one of our Gen2 machines. Both used our extract. The breweries they were up against were all grain brew houses worth millions. In that moment we showed that the idea that modern homebrew extracts is not as good as all grain brews is another myth told by the arrogant all grain home brewers in order to make themselves feel better about themselves. If there is a problem with our extract, the 20 beer judges in a blind beer tasting comp would have marked these guys beer down. Fact. A home brewers all grain set up will not be as good as a modern Krones or Briggs Brew house. So we beat the highest standard of all grain worts with extracts. What it shows is the evaporation process to make extract is of no consequence. As is the evaporation process during malting, hops drying and wort boiling. Our extract is also made from all grain in a brew house. So it's also all grain. the only difference is evaporation and rehydration. water molecules moving out and back in. No big deal

Feel free to post this if you want. You will fire them up no end. Would be fun to see the reactions. But don't worry about it. They are just internet trolls. Not my market. My market are smarter men than these guys. I look forward to you making great wort in the BM and great beer with our unit. You can't go wrong
Cheers
Ian

Food for thought

Wobbly

 

[manticle]

Wobbly: Can you ask him if he ever has any intentions of adding a wort production section to it?

Forgetting the overdone quality of AG vs extract argument, obviously some people enjoy making their own wort (you included) so I'm wondering if he would ever consider a model that incorporates that.

Cheers

Only thing written there I have an issue with is this

They are billion dollar brands because they are quality products.

His comment about knocking one style over another I agree with but there are better examples of pale lager out there so it's not about style. Something selling well is not proof of quality, otherwise McDonalds would be quality food and the ******* awful ***** that passes for contemporary pop would be quality music. Bold and the beautiful, two and a half men and all sorts of other well marketed superficial, meaningless **** would be quality, as would cheap white bread and sugary soft drinks. People buy stuff without thinking - doesn't indicate any level of quality beyond shelf stability and advertising.

Otherwise interesting response and many valid points.

 

[Parks]

While I agree with at least 85-90% of what he said his attitude is arrogant doesn't do him any favours.

What he doesn't understand is threads like this can really make a product when someone googles it. He had the opportunity to be humble and make solid explanations.

I am happy for your purchase and look forward to "one of us" reporting back on the actual use and results.

 

[bradsbrew]

Thanks for sharing wobbly, the manufacturer does come across as a bit arrogant but hey he is defending his product. Is it my interpretation or does 10 contradict 9?

Also with reference to 6, he has grouped vials and smack packs as the same. I do not believe this to be the case. Smack packs do have a nutrient that is activated upon smacking which promote cell growth which is indicated during the swelling stage.

Cheers Brad

 

[Ducatiboy stu]

Someone had better email Coopers and tell them to stop aging their beers for a minimum of 6 weeks before being released ftom the warehouse.

 

[Parks]

Someone had better email Coopers and tell them to stop aging their beers for a minimum of 6 weeks before being released ftom the warehouse.

I can see there is definitely a "marketing" thing going on. I really would love if Wobbly would do stout, robust porter type beer and see if it changes after fermentation after 6 weeks. I know mine have a marked mellowing or whatever over that time.

​Maybe pressure changes it, maybe using quality extracts which are in themselves somewhat aged?

Either way, I sincerely hope Wobbly does give us some trials, videos / photos, cause even if most of us think it's not value etc it's still brew porn and there isn't anything on this site that works the same way.

 

[Camo6]

While still keen to see you gain the most from this investment Wobbly, I agree with the others about Ian's demeanor. I disagree with his opinion that we're all 'really dumb', no matter how eloquently stated! I do however agree that he has created the world's smallest brewery (from fermentation onwards). To the best of my knowledge it's the world's only brewery (from fermentation onwards).
And though Ian might not think that we, the members of this forum, are the market he aims for, it might pay you to inform him that you've been a member since 2005!
As for this: "You will fire them up no end. Would be fun to see the reactions. But don't worry about it. They are just internet trolls" really has no place on this forum and does nothing towards the good vibe.

All this aside I'm looking forward to hearing the results of your first batch as with the help of a BM, a solid recipe and a controlled fermentation chamber I can't see how you could churn out anything more than a cracking beer.

Cheers

 

[Mr. No-Tip]

they're really dumb and don't understand beer making like a brew master

Translation: rather than try to convince the 0.3% homebrewers I mentioned, maybe explain why their concerns are invalid using my plethora of qualifications and superior brewing intellect, I am just going to burn bridges and alienate the keenest and most spend-likely cohort among them by calling them dumb internet trolls.

Guess all that brewing education didn't leave much room for marketing education/not being a dick education.

Yours sincerely,
Apparent internet troll not brewer.

 

[Elz]

Price, price, price, yawn, price price, price price, yawn, yawn, yawn. Price is a relative term. For instance I would not pay 50 cents for a six pack of wit beer, others would pay $20. So while some may argue that paying $7000 for a WW you could make the best home brew system and still have hundreds left over for grain and the best kegerator etc, you may be missing the point. This system, as mentioned above is designed for home brewers with different needs/wants/desires of which price is considered, but other aspects come into play: design, streamlined process, ascetics, compact, ease of operation and other aspects pertinent to individual purchasers.

It definitely is not for everyone and some will never be converted, however it allows me to brew quality home brew so it works for me. Plus the beer tastes great!

 

[Ducatiboy stu]

He has designed a mini mega-swill brewery. A big mac you can cook at home.

 

[Parks]

it allows me to brew quality home brew so it works for me. Plus the beer tastes great!

There are hundreds, if not thousands of brewers on here who make great tasting beer. When I was young I used to make Coopers tins which I said tasted great.

Elz, or Wobbly - can someone make a DrSmurto's Golden Ale so we can have a taste off!

 

[pimpsqueak]

No way!!! DB cranks out cans of putrid swamp water in 6 days? Who would have guessed?

Are all master brewers that pump out tasteless megaswill this arrogant?
All he has managed to do is ensure that if the price ever comes down to sub $200, I still won't buy it on principal.

 

[djar007]

You dont need him to justify your purchase wobbly. As long as you are happy with it thats awesome. What is overpriced to one person is spare change to the next. A braumeister and one of these units certainly simplifies the whole process. And it looks great. Marketing behind it is very good. Nothing wrong there. I remember a few issues back in BYO magazine seeing the elctronic brewery guys setup at home. A great way to showcase the process of making beer using a very extravagant setup. But it was a life choice to go down that path for the guy that built it and it made him happy. As I am sure it does you. Common goal here is to brew beer we can stand behind and be proud of. I look forward to a few pictures of your experiences with the whole setup. Regards Dave.