Wild Fermented Lambic

[kabooby]

I am looking at making a spontaneous fermented lambic and was after some information.

This is just going to be an experiment to see if the wild yeast we have in our area at this time of year will produce a good lambic. I am going to brew a batch of beer and let it cool overnight in the kettle with the lid off. Being Winter at the moment it should cool overnight and should theoretically perform the same function as the cool ships at Cantillion. When the wort is cool I will transfer it to a pinlock keg and leave it to ferment from there. I have several pinlock kegs that I have dedicated to sour beers. From what I have read Cantillion transfer it into wine barrels from their coolships and leave it there for a few years. A wine barrel is a bit too much beer for me.

My question is after the bulk of fermentation is finished do they transfer the beer of the yeast to let it condition for years in separate barrels or does primary fermentation and conditioning all happen in the one barrel.

My concern would be autolysis but not sure if the lower ph of these beers prevents that from happening.

If anyone has any experience with this I am keen to know more

Kabooby

 

[Stuster]

No experience except as a reader. In Wild Brews it's reported that lambic brewers do not transfer the beer, this being a difference between the fermentation of lambics and Flanders reds/browns as the latter is transferred to a secondary vessel. The trub acts as food to the lactic-producing bacteria and to brettanomyces so is important for flavour development.

Great that you are giving this a go. I'm going to be going the safer route in the next week or so and making some lambic with the Wyeast Lambic blend. Never really thought of going the spontaneous route, except been meaning to do that with cider. Good luck with it. :beer:

 

[kabooby]

Great Info. Thanks mate.

I think I will need the luck

I tried a cider earlier this year. I left it for a few days without adding yeast or sodium met and it did start fermenting. I then chickend out and added some yeast to finish it off. The cider came out nice with a slight sour character, very easy drinking and refreshing. I haven't tried it for a while so I am not sure how it's holding up.

Kabooby

 

[MCT]

Sounds interesting Kabooby! Looking forward to trying it at Antico's one day.

 

[Quintrex]

I am looking at making a spontaneous fermented lambic and was after some information.

This is just going to be an experiment to see if the wild yeast we have in our area at this time of year will produce a good lambic. I am going to brew a batch of beer and let it cool overnight in the kettle with the lid off. Being Winter at the moment it should cool overnight and should theoretically perform the same function as the cool ships at Cantillion. When the wort is cool I will transfer it to a pinlock keg and leave it to ferment from there. I have several pinlock kegs that I have dedicated to sour beers. From what I have read Cantillion transfer it into wine barrels from their coolships and leave it there for a few years. A wine barrel is a bit too much beer for me.

My question is after the bulk of fermentation is finished do they transfer the beer of the yeast to let it condition for years in separate barrels or does primary fermentation and conditioning all happen in the one barrel.

My concern would be autolysis but not sure if the lower ph of these beers prevents that from happening.

If anyone has any experience with this I am keen to know more

Kabooby

From what I've read, it's good to lower the pH to about pH 3(from memory) as this inhibits the growth of enterobacteria, you can either do this by adding lactic acid or pitching lactobacillus or something at the start. While this is kinda interfering with a spontaneous ferment, it can prevent some of the disgusting results that can be had.
Lambics are all traditionally left on the trub/yeast, which as stuster said provides food for the long term health of the bacteria, however I have heard of some people who like the sour side, but less funk prefer to rack the beer to a corny after the first year.

 

[Quintrex]

FWIW my last batch of spontaneously fermented lambic which I left out for a night in a "coolship" ended up tasting/smelling like salad dressing . Hugely acidic after 9 months.
So maybe disregard anything I say
Q

 

[kabooby]

What time of year was that Q?

I beleive that these beers need to be made in the winter. In the summer months there are to many unfavourables in the air that spoil the beer (in a bad way), even in Belgium.

I really want to do it the natural way. If that means leaving it on the yeast for the whole time than "BRING ON THE FUNK"

Kabooby

 

[Muggus]

Love the idea Kabooby!
Has been something i've always wanted to toy with, and this thread has planted another seed into wanting to do so. Especially with a 2 month trip coming up, i need to brew something that can sit there for a while.

Out of interest, what sort of recipe are you thinking about using?
Classic lambic with unmalted wheat malt in the grist and aged hops, or something different?

 

[manticle]

Really interested in how this turns out although I guess it maybe some time before we find out.

I plan to do a Breton style cider before the year is complete but having a crack at genuine lambic takes balls and patience I reckon.

 

[kabooby]

Recipe will be basic

65% Pils
35% Unmalted wheat
5 grams per litre of 2.1% Hallertaur that I have had in the fridge for a few years. Should be about 6 IBU

Patience will be the key. I will try not to touch it for at least a year. Do the same thing next winter and then start blending in a few years time. Or maybe I should make a bit extra to allow for samples :chug:

Kabooby

 

[Quintrex]

What time of year was that Q?

I beleive that these beers need to be made in the winter. In the summer months there are to many unfavourables in the air that spoil the beer (in a bad way), even in Belgium.

I really want to do it the natural way. If that means leaving it on the yeast for the whole time than "BRING ON THE FUNK"

Kabooby

I made it in spring. You are probably right about the timing.
May I suggest that you hedge your bets and spontaneously ferment half?, you can always combine them if all seems well.
Or at the least split them up so that they are exposed in different areas?

 

[kabooby]

Yeah I was thinking of splitting batches. Ferment 20 litres with a lambic blend and let the other 20 litres go wild. If nothing else it would be great to see the difference between the two.

I have a vial of White labs WLP655 Belgian Sour mix that I can use but it also contains a sacch strain so it won't be a real good comparison. This might make a big difference :unsure:

Kabooby

 

[matti]

you are an exciting brewer
I read some stuff on lambic brewing but not so keen to try my self since i Am not too keen on the flavours.
good luck with it

 

[Quintrex]

Yeah I was thinking of splitting batches. Ferment 20 litres with a lambic blend and let the other 20 litres go wild. If nothing else it would be great to see the difference between the two.

I have a vial of White labs WLP655 Belgian Sour mix that I can use but it also contains a sacch strain so it won't be a real good comparison. This might make a big difference :unsure:

Kabooby

Something I might do at some stage is prepare a whole load of highly hopped starters, and let them be innoculated at different times/places. let them go for a few months, taste, pick which ones you want.

My next annual lambic will be innoculated with the standard lambic blend and brett. claussenii.

Looking forward to the sour beer swap

Q

 

[berapnopod]

I have never wild-fermented myself. But I remember a professional lambic brewer telling me that the critical thing is to make sure the temperature stays at or below 16C for fermentation. Higher than that and the balance of bacterial to yeast activity gets out of whack and you end up with something that is too phenolic.

Berp.

 

[neonmeate]

have a look at babblebelt homebrew forum. most of the spontaneous fermenting guys say that stopping acetobacter is a big problem. but winter would be the best time - you want everything else to get going well before the temperatures start to rise.

fwiw i did the cooling outside with no yeast thing with my one and only failed lambic 5 years ago (before adding wyeast lambic blend) and all i got out of that was flies laying eggs in the wort.... that reappeared in copious maggot form some months later....
if mrs neonmeate ever decides to relax her lambic ban i will be doing it all with bought cultures.

 

[kabooby]

I am hoping that if I only leave the wort to cool overnight, and then transfering into a sealed keg to ferment, it will limit the exposure to oxygen and keep the level of Acetobacter down.

I just find it hard to believe that Belgium is the only place in the world that this can be done.

If they can do it so can I :beerbang: It just might take a bit of experimenting.

Kabooby

 

[Quintrex]

I am hoping that if I only leave the wort to cool overnight, and then transfering into a sealed keg to ferment, it will limit the exposure to oxygen and keep the level of Acetobacter down.

I just find it hard to believe that Belgium is the only place in the world that this can be done.

If they can do it so can I :beerbang: It just might take a bit of experimenting.

Kabooby

To be honest i think they'd struggle in belgium these days, if the bacteria hadn't taken residency in their equipment/buildings.

Q

 

[kabooby]

Finally got around to brewing this. Chickened out on doing the whole batch with wild yeast and just filled up a 1.5 litre grolsch bottle and left it with the lid off to get some wild yeast in there. After 10 days it has started to grow some mould on top of the wort.

I was hoping to see a pellicle form.

Anyway, all is not lost. I have the remaining 38L fermenting away with the White labs lambic blend.

Kabooby

 

[Swinging Beef]

Lambic Chicken