Why Do Kit Brewers Try To Emulate Brewery Beers

[masculator002]

Thankyou all for your interesting comments, and to all of you kit brewers out there I must say that I was not meaning any insult or criticism, after all if it was not for the desire to create something good along the lines of some of the beers I truly enjoyed I probably not have gotten to the point where flavour and aroma became a big thing to me. What I am trying to say is that you can do it with out a commercial kit just as easily as you can with a kit and that you shouldn't be afraid to create something of your own. Be it something that is passionfruity like squires hop thief with the maltyness of an Oettinger and the yeastyness of a firestone or the bitterness of an arrogant ******* ale, Make it your own and dont be afraid to try using things which are frowned upon by others.

 

[marksfish]

is all this pink floyd talk got anything to do with the dark side?

 

[masculator002]

FLAME SUIT ON LADIES!

Guilty as charged officer! Sure disguised behind some humour but I certainly have. Was it wrong? Yes. Would I do it again? Maybe? Having care in making a clone is a demonstration of your understanding of this craft. It's that bloody simple. I was there not too long ago but I researched and looked for answers first. Blantantly jumping on this forum and having no regard for the craft and asking for a clone recipe rips my knickers. What's the point if you don't have even the simple things down pat like temp control? So I avoid those these days. Don't get me wrong I'm happy to jump in and give advice where I can but sometimes there some that need to fail first to learn.

Chappo

Agreed chappo some times it is better to fail trying something blind than to be handed the cards and still not achieve the desired results or worse still not learning from the knowledge gleaned.

 

[mattcarty]

is all this pink floyd talk got anything to do with the dark side?

damn now i want to listen to pink floyd while drinking stout.....so maybe ill just go do that then!

 

[Online Brewing Supplies]

is all this pink floyd talk got anything to do with the dark side?

Good music + good beer, what else do you need ? The dark side is a natural progression.
GB

 

[manticle]

not trying to make it out as the newest and greatest smurto just trying to encourage some of the newer brewers to think outside thi box and try to create what they desire/imagine to be their desired beer.

They need to learn what the box is before they can think outside it though.

I think phoneyhuh's point was a good one and from the perspective of someone who, similar to myself, has not been brewing long but has learnt a shiteload in a short space of time.

I didn't want to make a VB clone when I started brewing on account of having been a fan of far better beers since my early twenties but I wouldn't have even thought I could get close to my favourite styles if I hadn't started with a can of cooper 'lager' and a pack of brewing sugar two years ago.

I understand what you mean but if a new guy read this, they might feel shat on rather than encouraged.

A good chef can make a great custard, some lovely pastry and turn it into a large croquembouche but that shouldn't mean they should rubbish a home cook's attempt at trying to make a chocolate eclair with cooking chocolate and readymade custard. Help them do it, help them do it better and then send them on their confident way to make large, custard laden choux pastry delicacies.

Extract is great but people find out about extract through kits and (often) wanting to make their kits taste like their favourite beer. For some cheap beer might be enough. For others (like myself and undoubtedly many replying to this thread) it's the beginning of a beautiful obsession: making good beer you enjoy.

 

[manticle]

........ researched and looked for answers first. Blantantly jumping on this forum and having no regard for the craft and asking for a clone recipe rips my knickers.

Chappo

Furry nuts.
Fairy muff
faar enouff oi me boy arrh
I see your point.

I also have torn panties.

 

[Scruffy]

Don't get me wrong I'm happy to jump in and give advice...

Any idea with this mate?

 

[Online Brewing Supplies]

damn now i want to listen to pink floyd while drinking stout.....so maybe ill just go do that then!

Get your fix Going to have this at my wake.
GB

 

[masculator002]

They need to learn what the box is before they can think outside it though.

I think phoneyhuh's point was a good one and from the perspective of someone who, similar to myself, has not been brewing long but has learnt a shiteload in a short space of time.

I didn't want to make a VB clone when I started brewing on account of having been a fan of far better beers since my early twenties but I wouldn't have even thought I could get close to my favourite styles if I hadn't started with a can of cooper 'lager' and a pack of brewing sugar two years ago.

I understand what you mean but if a new guy read this, they might feel shat on rather than encouraged.

A good chef can make a great custard, some lovely pastry and turn it into a large croquembouche but that shouldn't mean they should rubbish a home cook's attempt at trying to make a chocolate eclair with cooking chocolate and. Help them do it, help them do it better and then send them on their confident way to make large, custard laden choux pastry delicacies.

Extract is great but people find out about extract through kits and (often) wanting to make their kits taste like their favourite beer. For some cheap beer might be enough. For others (like myself and undoubtedly many replying to this thread) it's the beginning of a beautiful obsession: making good beer you enjoy.

And that is what I am trying to do manticle encourage them to make something good. If someone wants to go out and brew something that is 10%alcohol and has no desire for anything other than to get pissed they can buy a kit and 2 kg of white sugar, I am just trying to let the newer brewers understand how easy it is to do something different and that they can create flavours they had never imagined through a bit of research and wise decision making. Who would have ever thought that you could have made a beer that tastes like grapefruit or passionfruit just using malt hops water and yeast? or chocolate and raisins? and more to the point almost as cheaply and simply as the kit with the 2kgs of white sugar!

 

[manticle]

@masculator:

Sure, I get what you're trying to do and I agree with the point. It's what I'm constantly trying to do with my own beer.

It's just that if someone pops their head up wanting to know a simple thing and is rubbished with all grain or general beer snobbery, they may retreat instead of giving it a red hot go.

My introduction to this forum was asking if it would be ok if I kept my Brigalow Ginger beer after I broke my hydrometer in it.

I'm still here, and I'm now partial mashing, designing recipes and constantly thinking about better beer but even I have to admit I started as a nuff-nuff. I happen to be fairly thick skinned, particularly where the internet is concerned but I can imagine a brewer popping up and asking " how do I make xxx", being met with derision and either returning to buying megaswill or making cheaparse homebrand 'lager' with 3 kg of sugar and getting mashed every night.

We want to encourage people away from that (which is the point of your thread) but gently will be more effective than "OMG WHY MUST YOU DO THAT YOU IGNORANT PLEBIAN"?

I never thought I'd be encouraging people to be polite on the internet. Get stuffed the lot of you.

Bastards.

 

[Online Brewing Supplies]

@masculator:

Sure, I get what you're trying to do and I agree with the point. It's what I'm constantly trying to do with my own beer.

It's just that if someone pops their head up wanting to know a simple thing and is rubbished with all grain or general beer snobbery, they may retreat instead of giving it a red hot go.

My introduction to this forum was asking if it would be ok if I kept my Brigalow Ginger beer after I broke my hydrometer in it.

I'm still here, and I'm now partial mashing, designing recipes and constantly thinking about better beer but even I have to admit I started as a nuff-nuff. I happen to be fairly thick skinned, particularly where the internet is concerned but I can imagine a brewer popping up and asking " how do I make xxx", being met with derision and either returning to buying megaswill or making cheaparse homebrand 'lager' with 3 kg of sugar and getting mashed every night.

We want to encourage people away from that (which is the point of your thread) but gently will be more effective than "OMG WHY MUST YOU DO THAT YOU IGNORANT PLEBIAN"?

I never thought I'd be encouraging people to be polite on the internet. Get stuffed the lot of you.

Bastards.

Like your choice of words and thinking.True passion, thats what its about!
GB

 

[masculator002]

@masculator:

Sure, I get what you're trying to do and I agree with the point. It's what I'm constantly trying to do with my own beer.

It's just that if someone pops their head up wanting to know a simple thing and is rubbished with all grain or general beer snobbery, they may retreat instead of giving it a red hot go.

My introduction to this forum was asking if it would be ok if I kept my Brigalow Ginger beer after I broke my hydrometer in it.

I'm still here, and I'm now partial mashing, designing recipes and constantly thinking about better beer but even I have to admit I started as a nuff-nuff. I happen to be fairly thick skinned, particularly where the internet is concerned but I can imagine a brewer popping up and asking " how do I make xxx", being met with derision and either returning to buying megaswill or making cheaparse homebrand 'lager' with 3 kg of sugar and getting mashed every night.

We want to encourage people away from that (which is the point of your thread) but gently will be more effective than "OMG WHY MUST YOU DO THAT YOU IGNORANT PLEBIAN"?

I never thought I'd be encouraging people to be polite on the internet. Get stuffed the lot of you.

Bastards.

Sorry manticle as I said earlier my intention was not to insult or deride the begginers just to open a debate about how and where they can step up and improve upon what they are doing and encourage them not to be afraid to try new things. goodnight all. At the risk of further putting my foot in my mouth and possibly insulting people I will leave now.

 

[manticle]

No need for apologies mate. It generated a passionate discussion with lots of good viewpoints being put forward.

 

[Online Brewing Supplies]

Sorry manticle as I said earlier my intention was not to insult or deride the begginers just to open a debate about how and where they can step up and improve upon what they are doing and encourage them not to be afraid to try new things. goodnight all. At the risk of further putting my foot in my mouth and possibly insulting people I will leave now.

Your ok, cant see any problems with your comments.
GB

 

[masculator002]

Your ok, cant see any problems with your comments.
GB

Thanks GB

 

[Pollux]

I started brewing due to the cost of commercial beer. While I didn't personally try to clone anything, I can understand those who do.

Since then I have moved on to AG and still try to clone commercial beers I like (i.e. Fat Yak) but tweak them to my taste.


Was a cool story, lacks a dragon though.

 

[petesbrew]

I must suffer from ADD, Masculator, cos I really had trouble reading the OP... Once a paragraph gets beyond 3 lines I have trouble staying on track!

As already stated, Who hasn't tried to copy a beer they like? Isn't one of the fave recipes on this site Dr Smurto's Golden Ale? Not that I've made it... yet.
Not having a go, just making a point. (and I confess, I only skimmed over page 2 & 3 comments).

My first step towards flavour was one of those mailouts from Coopers, with a few recipes on it, namely the Buxom Blonde
That trip to Country Brewer for the Goldings teabag was an eye opener.... and the beer was fantastic.

 

[Scruffy]

I'm doing a brew today - I'm moved by the following sentiments -

The last major style of beer introduced was the Pilsner (1840ish, I think), but in all styles there are new efforts to rival the classics.
No two breweries are alike. Although the basic principles of brewing are the same everywhere, the product of the mashtun, the brew kettle and the fermenting vessels depend very much on exactly where it's made. The world's classic beers, like cheeses and wines, were born in a particular place as a result of local materials, circumstances and the ideas of the original creator.
Beer is much more extensively consumed than wine, but less adequately honoured and in my own understated and modest (and somewhat cavalier) way, I want to help put right that injustice.
There might be a couple of reasons for emulation
- the tried and tested methods produce desirable results.
- demographics - if i live on welfare and I can swap milk tokens for a can that says BUY ME - I MAKE COOPERS PALE ALE (ok - toned down - maybe to save money i want to make a Tooheys mauve or whatever, cause I used to drink that before the recession)
- homesick ex-pat brewers desperately trying to bring a little bit of home

Although I think the English phrase 'you can't polish a turd'... is kind of apt!!

 

[warra48]

A lot of new kit brewers believe the images of beer as displayed on the kit labels, boxes or brochures, which in my view almost amount to false advertising.

Misguidedly, novice brewers think they can make perfectly clear and carbonated great tasting beer by following the kit instructions.
After the almost inevitable disappointment, they look for answers to sites such as AHB, especially when their local HB shop in many cases is of little help.

Attempting to brew a kit beer which resembles a commercial beer you like is a good starting point, and I see nothing wrong with that. Some of my earliest brews attempted to copy JSAA, and I even compared my efforts side by side with the real one. I think I got close, and was happy with it at the time.

That didn't stop me progressing into extract, and then AG brewing.
I have no doubt my first AG brew was like hundreds of other's, i.e. a clone attempt at SNPA.
I now see commercial beers or styles as starting points, and I've arrived at a point where I brews beers according to my own tastes and desires.
If others like it, well and good, but if they don't, then I don't lose sleep over it.

My sister and brother-in-law have stayed with us for the last week. He's almost drunk me out of stock of my favourite brown ale.
He's an alleged lager drinker, but didn't like my BoPils, so we haven't touched any of that since the first day.

I guess brewing is all a journey, and you take it as far as you want to take it till you get to a point where you are happy.
And we shouldn't lose sight of the fact I see this as a hobby, even though it may be an obsessive one.
It's not life and death, there are more important things.