Whirlpool Chillers

[woodmac66]

I was listenenig to one of Jamils Podcasts on Whirlpool Chillers or it may have actually been on DMS.
Anyway they were saying how much quicker these wee than plate chillers and the elimination of the cleaning and potential contamination issues.
Also the issue on a hot day having all your wort sitting waiting to be cooled vs bring it all down quicker at the same time.
They were claiming pitching temps in like 10 minutes.
With our summers getting hotter and hotter I wouldn't mind other thought or hearing from someonr that uses this method.
All seemed pretty logical arguments to me.

 

[razz]

It is a logical argument woodmac, but there is always an alternative. I started using the JZ method of recirculating/cooling my wort as per his website. The only thing I do differently to him is I use a plate chiller instead of a copper coil. Works a treat, the cooled wort is pumped back into the kettle from the plate chiller. This sees the temp of the kettle drop to under 75 degrees in about three minutes. The total forty litres is down to pitching temps in thirty - sixty minutes depending on cooling water temp and pitching temp.

 

[woodmac66]

Thanks Razz... I am a goose I was Recirculating to create a whirpool the draining through the Plate chiller.
I am able to do that ...why didn't I think of that?

I feel like a real idiot now.

3 minutes that is awesome!

 

[woodmac66]

It is a logical argument woodmac, but there is always an alternative. I started using the JZ method of recirculating/cooling my wort as per his website. The only thing I do differently to him is I use a plate chiller instead of a copper coil. Works a treat, the cooled wort is pumped back into the kettle from the plate chiller. This sees the temp of the kettle drop to under 75 degrees in about three minutes. The total forty litres is down to pitching temps in thirty - sixty minutes depending on cooling water temp and pitching temp.

Razz there is a guy quoting full boli volume down in 5minutes to Pitching temp.
This would save a heap of water ..
When you were using the method was it that quick apposed to the 30 minutes through trhe plate .


Woody

 

[Maxt]

Pitching temp in 5 mins? Unbelievable.

 

[woodmac66]

Pitching temp in 5 mins? Unbelievable.

I know it sounds too good to be true...
Here is a qhote from the articl.e of a guy that has just built one and some piccys.

"JZ,
It's been a few months since I told you that I thought the Whirlpool Immersion Chiller (WIC) was the best thing since sliced bread. I'm still using rock salt with your design for chilling to lager temps, but have eliminated that step on ales. It's plenty fast without rock salt if I'm chilling to ale temps for 5 gallon batches, especially now that it's cold in Indiana. I took a 5 gallon batch from flame out to 65 degF in 5 minutes this past Saturday. Wow!

 

[glaab]

won't a plate chiller do that in winter? that guys tapwater was probably near freezing

 

[woodmac66]

My only experience was trying to get mine down yesterdayand it took ages.
Doing what Razz suggested will definately improve it but look at the graph , they are 40 litre batches.
I am assuming where he has ice written he starts circulating ice water once temp is lowered.
good part is the outside is easier to clean and water is generated through the coil.
they claim as ther is so mutch more surface area compared to a plate chiller.

 

[Stubbie]

Provided your immersion chiller has enough coils or CFPC has enough plates to be an effective heat exchanger, it doesn't really matter which one you choose. By far and away the most important factor is temperature differential between chilling water and your wort. Cold chilling water is king.

In Melbourne's winter, with tank water around 10 deg or thereabouts, time an time again I have brought a standard 23L batch down to 20 deg in around 15 minutes. That was using an immersion chiller (made from 50 feet of 1/2 in copper) and re-circulating (but I'm confident I could have achieved similar results with a decent CFPC). It's another story altogether as the weather warms up, or more importantly, my tank water warms up. My last 3 brews, albeit 40L batches, have blown out to around 40 to 60 minutes, and that was before the current summer-in-November we're having.

If I lived in Indiana during their winter with near freezing tank water, I reckon I could chill and batch in record time, irrespective of whether I was using an immersion chiller or CFPC and whether or not I was re-circulating. But few of us ever see that sort of weather in Oz, so any expectation of record chilling times are going to lead to disappointment.

For the record, I haven't experienced any of the claimed whirlpooling benefits as far as a neat cone of break and hops is concerned. Not in a my keggle, anyway.

One feature of recirculation to bear in mind, whether or not it's of value to the brewer, actual or perceived, is that it involves chilling the entire batch. In the articles I have read, JZ has really taken to the immersion chiller over a CFPC. But the real key to his system is wort recirculation.

Stubbie

 

[woodmac66]

Provided your immersion chiller has enough coils or CFPC has enough plates to be an effective heat exchanger, it doesn't really matter which one you choose. By far and away the most important factor is temperature differential between chilling water and your wort. Cold chilling water is king.

In Melbourne's winter, with tank water around 10 deg or thereabouts, time an time again I have brought a standard 23L batch down to 20 deg in around 15 minutes. That was using an immersion chiller (made from 50 feet of 1/2 in copper) and re-circulating (but I'm confident I could have achieved similar results with a decent CFPC). It's another story altogether as the weather warms up, or more importantly, my tank water warms up. My last 3 brews, albeit 40L batches, have blown out to around 40 to 60 minutes, and that was before the current summer-in-November we're having.

If I lived in Indiana during their winter with near freezing tank water, I reckon I could chill and batch in record time, irrespective of whether I was using an immersion chiller or CFPC and whether or not I was re-circulating. But few of us ever see that sort of weather in Oz, so any expectation of record chilling times are going to lead to disappointment.

For the record, I haven't experienced any of the claimed whirlpooling benefits as far as a neat cone of break and hops is concerned. Not in a my keggle, anyway.

One feature of recirculation to bear in mind, whether or not it's of value to the brewer, actual or perceived, is that it involves chilling the entire batch. In the articles I have read, JZ has really taken to the immersion chiller over a CFPC. But the real key to his system is wort recirculation.

Stubbie

Your comments are in line with razz.
My plate chiller is a 30 plate one and I guess I am choosing the worst conditions to guage its performance by
On my next Brew I will measure water temp and recirculate and make sure I time it.
i certainly think the plate chillers look neat and take up less space ........ But at the same time want the best advantage to the beer.


WOODY

 

[razz]

Razz there is a guy quoting full boli volume down in 5minutes to Pitching temp.
This would save a heap of water ..
When you were using the method was it that quick apposed to the 30 minutes through trhe plate .


Woody

Woody. I don't see why you can't achieve what he says he did. Before I copied JZ's method I use to run through the plate chiller and straight into the fermenter, this would take 10 minutes for 40 lts, of course that means that some of the wort sat at 95 degrees for the ten minutes. This method doesn't save me anymore time, in fact it takes longer, I do it to try and achieve what JZ says on his web page about hop flavour, aroma, etc.

 

[woodmac66]

Woody. I don't see why you can't achieve what he says he did. Before I copied JZ's method I use to run through the plate chiller and straight into the fermenter, this would take 10 minutes for 40 lts, of course that means that some of the wort sat at 95 degrees for the ten minutes. This method doesn't save me anymore time, in fact it takes longer, I do it to try and achieve what JZ says on his web page about hop flavour, aroma, etc.

Maybe I was running it slower than what i needed to.
I will focus on this a lot more for the next Brew and see what happens.
I guess the water at the moment is probably 25 degrees.
Cheers razz

 

[dr K]

of course if you no chill you save yourself the effort, I mean frankly, why go to all the effort and expense of fast (ish) chilling when a simple plastic cube will, so we are told, produce equal or better results..silly really.

K

 

[razz]

I'm a bit tempted to knock the dust of an old immersion chiller and use it in an ice bath so I can hit pitching temps in summer. I won't brew again for approx 3-4 weeks so I have plenty of time to rig it up and test it.

 

[woodmac66]

of course if you no chill you save yourself the effort, I mean frankly, why go to all the effort and expense of fast (ish) chilling when a simple plastic cube will, so we are told, produce equal or better results..silly really.

K

I am new too argue one way or the other and the no chill guys do get great reults through what I have read on this site.
But when you listen to Palmer & Jamil they insist there is more chances of issues DMS ,reduced Hop aroma.
I did it as I mainly want to get my beer in the fermenter and pitch on the same day.
Don't know or have an opinion as I haven't tried no chill.

 

[ausdb]

of course if you no chill you save yourself the effort, I mean frankly, why go to all the effort and expense of fast (ish) chilling when a simple plastic cube will, so we are told, produce equal or better results..silly really.

K

Because I can't be bothered to screw around relearning the effects/utilisation of late and off boil hop additions on my system and the beers I produce.