When To Add Candy To A Belgian?

[Swinging Beef]

Im hoping to get a fair emulation of a Belgian Blonde (leffe blonde) from a partial tomorrow.
Ive read several recipes online and even peeked into those old-skool paper style information divestors that existed before the internets.

One thing I am curious about.. when do you guys reckon the best time is to add the disolved candy.. for the whole boil, mid boil or after the boil?
And what is the impact of the timing?

 

[THE DRUNK ARAB]

Im hoping to get a fair emulation of a Belgian Blonde (leffe blonde) from a partial tomorrow.
Ive read several recipes online and even peeked into those old-skool paper style information divestors that existed before the internets.

One thing I am curious about.. when do you guys reckon the best time is to add the disolved candy.. for the whole boil, mid boil or after the boil?
And what is the impact of the timing?

I have always added Candy Sugar or any cane sugar to my Belgians at 15 minutes from flame out. It has worked well for me every time. YMMV!

C&B
TDA

 

[sjc]

SB

A brewer at a microbrewery in mid-northern NSW recommends that the best time to add sugar to a belgian is after it has done a fair proportion of its primary ferment (say at least a week). This way you avoid a number of unwanted fermentation products that can arise when the yeast is presented with wort that has a high proportion of simple sugars in the early stages of fermentation. This will mean that you'll have to add it as a liquid.

Cheers
Stephen.

 

[MHB]

Traditionally Kettle Sugars are added about 10 minutes from the end of the boil.

One thing people tend to over look is that when you're doing you bitterness calculations, you should calculate on the pre-sugar gravity.
Other wise you will be over hopping.

MHB

 

[Gough]

SB

A brewer at a microbrewery in mid-northern NSW recommends that the best time to add sugar to a belgian is after it has done a fair proportion of its primary ferment (say at least a week). This way you avoid a number of unwanted fermentation products that can arise when the yeast is presented with wort that has a high proportion of simple sugars in the early stages of fermentation. This will mean that you'll have to add it as a liquid.

Cheers
Stephen.

For what it is worth, here at Murray's we add the sugar to our Grand Cru (8.8% Belgian Tripel/Golden Strong Ale kinda sorta style...) on around day two or three of the primary ferment - as a liquid.

Good luck with it,

Shawn.

 

[Ross]

For what it is worth, here at Murray's we add the sugar to our Grand Cru (8.8% Belgian Tripel/Golden Strong Ale kinda sorta style...) on around day two or three of the primary ferment - as a liquid.

Good luck with it,

Shawn.

It's worth gold - Your Grand Cru is exceptional :icon_chickcheers:

cheers Ross

 

[warrenlw63]

Im hoping to get a fair emulation of a Belgian Blonde (leffe blonde) from a partial tomorrow.
Ive read several recipes online and even peeked into those old-skool paper style information divestors that existed before the internets.

One thing I am curious about.. when do you guys reckon the best time is to add the disolved candy.. for the whole boil, mid boil or after the boil?
And what is the impact of the timing?

Could be drifting a little :icon_offtopic: from Swinging Beef's original question. Being a Leffe Blonde Clone you're only looking at a SG of around 1.065 or less, nowhere near Tripel country. So you're not throwing the yeast an overly-large challenge.

Pretty much +1 for TDA's suggestion of 15 minutes from flameout. Allows you to pasteurize the sugar as well. Having tried TDA's higly awesome Flyblown you can be assured it will work. :beer:

Warren -

 

[sjc]

For what it is worth, here at Murray's we add the sugar to our Grand Cru (8.8% Belgian Tripel/Golden Strong Ale kinda sorta style...) on around day two or three of the primary ferment - as a liquid.

Good luck with it,

Shawn.

Hi Shawn
thanks for that clarification; I couldn't exactly recall the timing you indicated.
I was not going to name names to protect the innocent etc etc.
Cheers
Stephen.

 

[devo]

I would suggest against adding at the beginning of boil as I did in my first attempt at a Belgian. May as well have added nothing because the effect I was after never came across. In future I will be adding it at flame out or in fermentation.

 

[Gough]

Hi Shawn
thanks for that clarification; I couldn't exactly recall the timing you indicated.
I was not going to name names to protect the innocent etc etc.
Cheers
Stephen.

No worries Stephen - a few beers were consumed that night after all :lol: I was just clarifying as you say.

As for TDA's suggestion, having also tried a couple of his beers I'd also vouch for his advice. Like Warren says in a lower gravity beer it is less of an issue. Many would argue it should also be less of an issue in high gravity beers - I'm just pointing out the way we do it here. We use the same method with dark brown sugar in our Anniversary Ale FWIW.

Again, good luck with the brew Swinging Beef. Either way it will be a winner.

Shawn.

 

[sjc]

SB
what yeast were you thinking of using for your leffe blonde clone?
Cheers
Stephen.

 

[Swinging Beef]

SB
what yeast were you thinking of using for your leffe blonde clone?
Cheers
Stephen.

In all honesty I cant tell you anything except that it is a Belgian Yeast.
My mentor, who may or may not choose to remain nameless, has provided me with the yeast.
Suffice to say, Ive tasted a couple of his beers as have many of the other forum members, and he knows his shit.

I would be really keen if you are able to offer me any suggestions in particular?
Belgian Beers are a real favorite of mine and if these brews come off I will be delving deeply into making them much more in future.

 

[kook]

I always add at the beginning of the boil, as this is what hop additions are calculated around.

I'd add it wherever you feel like, so long as you carefully consider your IBU calcuations and sanitation.

 

[Ross]

I always add at the beginning of the boil, as this is what hop additions are calculated around.

I'd add it wherever you feel like, so long as you carefully consider your IBU calcuations and sanitation.

If using brewing software like Beersmith, you can eslect wether its added pre or post boil so it won't upset your bittering calcs.
I just select post boil when adding in the last 10 mins.

cheers Ross

 

[Swinging Beef]

It seems the jury is out on this one, and I decided to go with the option of
"add disolved candi at flameout"

I will ask more questions on this subject when Ive tasted the finished product.
Fingers crossed, eh?

 

[rich_lamb]

It may not make too big a difference if your starting grav. is in the 60's and you're not using much more than about 10% sugar. Very important to pitch a large healthy yeast though - if not you will probably get the same result as a lot of first-time Belgian brewers: hot/alcoholic.

I generally add sugar in the last few minutes of the boil, but I'm definitely swinging over to the idea of adding after primary fermentation has started. This has a lot of benefits for the yeast, which will translate to the flavour generally. eg.

1) Not shocking yeast with a very high gravity - the extreme osmotic pressure can literally force yeaties to shit themselves. Though as your gravity shouldn't be too high you don't have to worry (as much).

2) High proportion of simple sugars can affect the yeast's ability to ferment maltose, which causes a preferential ferment and possibly reduced attenuation. Don't give them any pudding till they finish the main course!

Leffe's a great beer to clone though - post your recipe, as I'm looking at doing one myself soon.

 

[Swinging Beef]

... if not you will probably get the same result as a lot of first-time Belgian brewers: hot/alcoholic...

...Leffe's a great beer to clone though - post your recipe, as I'm looking at doing one myself soon.

What does hot/alcoholic mean? Just high ABV? Not something else with the word hot?

Ill post the recipe if it comes off alright.
Im still a rank beginner to partials, this is my second brew without a kit, so I would much rathr see your recipies for next time

 

[DJR]

What does hot/alcoholic mean? Just high ABV? Not something else with the word hot?

Ill post the recipe if it comes off alright.
Im still a rank beginner to partials, this is my second brew without a kit, so I would much rathr see your recipies for next time

Solvent like character - when the Belgian yeasts get hot or stressed out they can throw fusel alcohols that taste like solvent, a very noticeable alcoholic taste.

Main thing is keeping the ferment temp down (<21C) for at least the first couple of days, then let it rise later (up to as much as 28C) to let the yeast attenuate all the sugar properly. Once you get past the initial danger period then it doesn't really matter what temp you go to, since most of the fusel/ester production happens pretty early in the ferment, at the same time the yeast is growing its cell count up after pitching.

 

[kook]

I'm an advocate of pitching a big (5L) starter or about 500ml of yeast slurry into big (1.090+) belgians now. Keeping the fermentation cool (18 degrees) initially, and then turn off the fridge once it reaches 2/3 attenuation. It'll probably reach 25-28 at the end, but the bulk of the fermentation is very clean. The higher temps near the end of fermentation are necessary in my opinion to get proper (80-85%) attenuation.

edit: What he said ^^