When a H.B. Shop should say "Kits and Bits" only!

[Ducatiboy stu]

Why would they have to repeat what the manufacturer recommends. Surely that info would come in the accompanying documentation if the process was necessary. If the maker could not supply that info then I would be pissed off

Exactly

Just because a retailer sells something doesnt automatically make them an expert on the product, nor do they need to be

Go to a paint shop ( Bunninks )and buy some paint. The guy behind the counter probably has no idea about the application so you need to read the manufacturers recommendations and contact them if you have further issues.

If there are manufactures instructions then follow them and take it up with the manufacturer. I to agree that is the manufacturer who is the one to supply the more detailed info and technical support ( and warranty )

If you buy a new car and its faulty you dont take it up with the bloke who sold it to you, you take it up with the vehicle manufacturer ( who will then advise taking to anyone of their dealers )

 

[desitter]

I think it's been expressed strongly enough that we're not suggesting anyone be required to be an 'expert', and it's a very dishonest attempt at a strawman to assert otherwise.

Isn't whether or not the HBS are able to meet the needs of their customers at the very heart of what's being discussed in this thread? There's a higher expectation for HBS. If HBS weren't able to instruct their customers in the benefits and use of their products, then those customers would probably give up the hobby before they even began. Hence there's a reasonable expectation that the guy selling the product should know more about it than the customer, and will be available to field reasonable questions, even if the answers are only on par with the manufacture's recommendations. This is the very merit, or lack thereof, by which half the comments in this thread passing judgment upon their LHBS are predicated upon! If I came in looking for advice on the parts and assembly of a simple kegging system, but was only meet with a shrug of the shoulders by the guy selling the equipment, then I would be completely justified in respectfully leaving and giving that business a wide berth in future. I expect a HBS worth its salt to know what it is they are selling, and how it is used, and I believe most people would feel and expect the same. This whole car dealership red-herring is a faulty comparison, it's apples and oranges. If I buy a dodgy temp controller from a HBS, I take it back and get a new one, not call up the no-name Chinese factory looking for a replacement. Just not a good comparison, and hardly relevant.

Bottom line is this thread seemed to be about people's HBS 'horror' stories, trivial or otherwise. I threw in my 2c like everyone else. You, apparently had some unfounded preconceptions about passivation being some advanced topic out of reach of the homebrewer, and decided that I 'deserved what I got', as if I had somehow offended you personally, therefore warranting such a snarky comment. I hope I have made my reasoning clear, and that you can appreciate that the methods of passivation are well within the realm of possibility for the most basic of homebrewers looking to prolong the life of their expensive stainless equipment. And that it is a perfectly reasonable topic to broach with your local HBS selling stainless steel products. If it's a topic that you have not taken an interest in, that does not mean others haven't.

Appendix B, How To Brew (an Introductory text for new brewers) covers passivation.
Google searches will lead to articles in BYO on the topic, as well as tonnes of homebrewtalk posts asking for the best methods.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8l21T_dPbNw

I don't see much more value in continuing the discussion if it continues as it has, so I'll leave it at that and cease high-jacking this thread for argument sake.

 

[Ducatiboy stu]

Maybe your expectations are different to what most people would expect

 

[Kingy]

Its like a local pub i go to and sample craft beer. Its a great place with good beers and the owner has good taste. They recently got there own 'branded' name pale ale on tap. Upon asking a few questions about where it is brewed he wanted to keep it a secret for some unknown reason. Then i asked him what hops where used as i really liked the sample. And the answer was that he didnt really know and trys not to get to much involved in it?.
I still go there for the good beers but dont engage in much beer talk especially about the unknown hop secretly brewed pale ale.

then theres the said local brew shop that tried to sell me an ale yeast (off the counter,unrefridgerated) with a 'lager'BOCK'fresh wort kit.
I go there when desperate and need a hydromoter or something urgent.
fake it till ya make it i suppose.
Like come on what sort of home brew shop doesnt store yeast in the fridge in 2015.
I just prefer to go to the pub/homebrew shop/halfway house and get my gear and move on instead of listening to someone dribble on with shit advice.
This probably should of went in the continuing rant thread lol.
I feel better now anyway. Cheers.

 

[Ducatiboy stu]

.
Like come on what sort of home brew shop doesnt store yeast in the fridge in 2015.

A lot actually.

And the majority of home brewers would not care anyway. It would be hard enough just to get them to try a different yeasts, yet alone getting the HBS owner to look after it properly.

There are still those out there who swear by sodium met.....And and extra kilo of sugar to make it stronger...

 

[SJW]

WOW, This thread took on a life of its own. Anyway after reading all the posts my opinion has changed a little of the shop in question. I brewed with the 40g of hops I bought from him on the weekend and they appeared to be exactly the same as the fresh Hallertau I got from Steve (Brewman) Same colour, smell, moisture content ect. Regardless I should not have assumed the worst, as he may well of sold me a fine product, even though he new nothing about it.
He must be doing ok with the shop as it always has people in there buying a kit and a KG of Dextrose and a few grams of hops for a tea bag. If people are happy making this beer good on them. Personally I hate the beer he serves as a sample of what he sells, it really tastes like bland, old school homebrew dad use to make, fermented at 30 deg and gasses up like coke.
I think in the HB world we are the minority.

 

[Bribie G]

It's a pity that LHBS owners don't get a firm grasp of brewing principles because you can actually make drinkable beer from the products they sell.
For example I was in the Taree LHBS a few weeks ago and bought some MJ Bo Pils yeast. On impulse (what a wild life I have ) I picked up a tin of MJ lager and kilo of amber Brew Enhancer. I added a tub of maltose syrup and 12g of Citra.
Fermented at 13 which was ambient at the time.
Then I lagered at 4 for a couple of weeks and kegged.
It's turned out a refreshing and clean job more reminiscent of some pub brews like Kosciusko due to the amber mix and the small hop addition.
I'll make this one again as a lazy arse keg filler.

However I could just as easily have chucked a tin of Coopers and a kilo of sugaz into the FV with the tin yeast and fermented in the garage next to the door that gets hot in the sun and produced a keg of swill.

The point is that I got my knowledge from AHB and other resources but not one iota from LHBS operators.

 

[GalBrew]

Maybe your expectations are different to what most people would expect

I think in this case if the LHBS described in the story is the one I am thinking of, they have a reasonable range of products for AG brewing, but I will be fucked if any of the staff even have the slightest clue about brewing beer.

 

[SJW]

I think in this case if the LHBS described in the story is the one I am thinking of, they have a reasonable range of products for AG brewing, but I will be fucked if any of the staff even have the slightest clue about brewing beer.

LOL :blink: That's my impression.

 

[pcmfisher]

It's a pity that LHBS owners don't get a firm grasp of brewing principles because you can actually make drinkable beer from the products they sell.
For example I was in the Taree LHBS a few weeks ago and bought some MJ Bo Pils yeast. On impulse (what a wild life I have ) I picked up a tin of MJ lager and kilo of amber Brew Enhancer. I added a tub of maltose syrup and 12g of Citra.
Fermented at 13 which was ambient at the time.
Then I lagered at 4 for a couple of weeks and kegged.
It's turned out a refreshing and clean job more reminiscent of some pub brews like Kosciusko due to the amber mix and the small hop addition.
I'll make this one again as a lazy arse keg filler.

However I could just as easily have chucked a tin of Coopers and a kilo of sugaz into the FV with the tin yeast and fermented in the garage next to the door that gets hot in the sun and produced a keg of swill.

The point is that I got my knowledge from AHB and other resources but not one iota from LHBS operators.

And if that is how you have always done it, there aint no information from AHB or your local brew shop that will make you change your ways.

 

[mosto]

Don't always assume what is on the shelf is all they have in stock. My 'local' HBS (it's an hour away, so not overly local) doesn't look overly exciting to an AG brewer when you walk in. It's a Country Brewer franchise with lots of kits on the shelves up one end, a shit load of essences down the other and a few bags of spec grains, dextrose, brew enhancers etc in between. However, if I ring or email them beforehand, they'll get a 25kg bag of base malt in and have been able to get most strains of yeast in that I've asked for. I've never hit them up for advice as I mostly get advice from AHB, so don't know about their brewing knowledge. They do seem quite passionate about brewing though, they're friendly, and as I said, can order most things in that I require. Given the distance I really only go there when I'm out of base malt or need my gas bottle refilled, but I try to stock up a bit when I do go.

 

[pcmfisher]

On the other hand, you could just imagine the amount of half cocked internet knowledge and "I've been doing it for 40 years" knowledge that gets imparted on brew shop owners everyday from customers.

No wonder they can't decide to put their yeast in the fridge.

 

[Moad]

I wonder if they would tell you to rehydrate or not...

 

[gap]

I wonder if they would tell you to rehydrate or not...

Depends if you tell them you are feeling a bit dry

 

[Spiesy]

How many people do you know that even know about passivation.

You cant readily buy the paste ( apart from specialist engineering shops ) so what hope is a HBS shop guy got

Not everyone knows everything about every product they sell.

That's dumb. If you're selling gear worth hundreds of dollars you should at least know how it needs to be prepped before use.

 

[Steve]

Here in sw Sydney we have it made.
The local hb shop has kits bits equipment loads of grains liquid and dry yeasts even the new pure pitch, hops galore all kept in the fridge with the yeasts. The manager is an award winning home brewer with a great attitude, knows all the customers by name and will order in anything you ask for.
He is also willing to spend hours talking shit about brewing.
What more could you ask for.

I would ask them to store their hops in the freezer

 

[antiphile]

i go to craftbrewer capalaba for grains, and annerley for service. capalaba has great staff, and a completely egoblown wank for a manager. so if you can avoid him, it's all good.if you ask him a question on anything about gear, systems etc, he'll run you down like you've got the iq of a lobotomised frog then pump up his own tyres.

Sounds very familiar. I dropped in there (Capalaba) in early July to have a look around, see the range, grab a SS temp gauge and thermowell, plate chiller, several metres of good silicon tube, and several other bits and bobs. It's nice to know who you're dealing with on the phone IMHO. (Not a Qld native, but spending about a third of the time there the last few years for several reasons). I guess it was a 45 min drive each way from Chapel Hill.

For most of the stuff I had a really nice young guy (perhaps with a slight stutter) who served me. He was more than willing to help as much as he possibly could, but he didn't appear dreadfully knowlegeable or maybe he was a bit new to the game. Yet I really liked him for his attitude and willingness to assist. At the end, I asked what washer he recommended for the thermowell, and he said he wasn't certain but would get someone who'd know (and no-one can criticise him for honesty and openess). He got "the boss"!

The sergeant-major came out, looked me up and down, and seemed to size me up as a blithering half-wit. Perhaps he's very perceptive! But the upshot of his lecturing was I had to use particular silicone washers, and he marched them over to the young guy totalling the bill, then went back to his computer in the glassed office behind the counter without further ado. IIRC, the cost was $207 or very close. I jokingly said "let's call it $200" and was grabbing 4 X $50 to put down. This is often accepted at many places but in no way is a deal breaker.Well, the young guy got a look horror on his face and said he'd go and ask.

Sure enough, the sergeant major came back out and I said the same thing to him. He looked at the cash register screen looked at me with derision, and told me "it's not that you're buying 10 of everything! If you insist, I'll give you one of the washers for free!", and stormed off. I was gobsmacked. I was also really pissed off at his tone and the way I was treated. All I could do was to genuinely apologise to the nice guy and thank him for all his help, tell him I'd get it elsewhere when I got home, and walk out stunned. He also was very embarassed by the look of it. So unfortunately, no Craft Brewer for me.

PS. At least it wasn't a totally wasted drive. I did the grocery shopping at the Capalaba shopping centre on the way home. And it is absolutely huuuuuge.

 

[Bribie G]

All the stores I have dealt with including Brewman, ESB Peakhurst shop, Country Brewer and of course CraftBrewer keep their hops in the fridge or a cool room.

Hey that isn't Ross's Craftbrewer you are referring to, on Christine Place in the industrial estate? Wow doesn't sound like the CB I know.
Or are you referring to Tru Brew at Capalaba on Old Cleveland Road?

 

[GalBrew]

All the stores I have dealt with including Brewman, ESB Peakhurst shop, Country Brewer and of course CraftBrewer keep their hops in the fridge or a cool room.

Yeah, I have never pulled a bag of hops out of a freezer at any homebrew shop anywhere.

 

[Steve]

Wierd. I thought it was standard practice to store them in the freezer? Have I been mistaken these past 20 years?