What Makes Megaswill Just So Crap?

[Hutch]

I am referring to all the beers the big 2 make, not just the common VB/New - they do produce International award winning beers (Real awards), however is it there fault that Australians prefer New/VB/XXXX?

I agree - they make some good beers through their various subsidiaries (Cascade, Malt Shovel, Matilda Bay, etc. etc.).
But just where do the "megaswill" beers rate in these beer awards? You certainly never see VB getting too many Gold medals!

...incidentally, have a look at how the brewers themselves (Fosters) clasify VB - "full strength bitter lager". WTF???
So they're making up styles now are they? Probably not too long before this style appears in competitions too

 

[PostModern]

True, the large scale does make it easier to be consistent. But when a brewery consumes the amount of malt in a single day what a micro does in a year, things like the malt itself make a big difference.

Sure. But they have processes to deal with variability. Colour can be adjusted, mash temps and steps can be altered to deal with varying protein levels, there are adjuncts for nitrogen additions, and so on. They can also reject loads of malt if they are too far from spec. There are ways and documented processes to deal with just about any scenario. They're very organised and have been doing this for a long long time.

And I take your point about errors, and whatnot, but as I mentioned in my last post, sins can be hidden by blending. One bad or out of spec tank can be blended in small amounts into other batches, and I reckon there's always the same out that we all have: dumping the undrinkable stuff into the sewer.

 

[the_fuzz]

But when a brewery consumes the amount of malt in a single day what a micro does in a year

To put it into perspective - 30 Tonnes per Hour of grain is crushed

 

[Hutch]

This thread is starting to get a bit boring. The argument has been a bit circular for a few pages.

MFS.

I disagree - not a boring thread at all.
It's just hitting a raw nerve with some of you that many of us could have such negative opinions of this "beer". I think it's a good discussion, with many perfectly valid opinions being expressed, and some insightful discussion going on.

 

[newguy]

To put it into perspective - 30 Tonnes per Hour of grain is crushed

That's a truly mind blowing amount. Reminds me of a picture a friend showed me of the Warsteiner brewery in Germany. I got one of those "holy shit" moments when I saw their rotary keg filler. I was born & raised on a farm, and I keep converting this huge malt consumption into acres & growing seasons. It still blows my mind.

And I take your point about errors, and whatnot, but as I mentioned in my last post, sins can be hidden by blending. One bad or out of spec tank can be blended in small amounts into other batches, and I reckon there's always the same out that we all have: dumping the undrinkable stuff into the sewer.

You're absolutely right - blending is their way to assure consistency. And I'm sure that a lot of beer ends up being dumped (we all do that). As much as it hurts a homebrewer to dump a batch, I imagine that it really hurts the megabrewers.

 

[Hutch]

To put it into perspective - 30 Tonnes per Hour of grain is crushed

:huh: That's a lot of Millmasters going flat-out

 

[Jerry]

This thread is starting to get a bit boring. The argument has been a bit circular for a few pages.

MFS.

Agree!

And I just read the whole bloody lot!

There's 30 mins I'II never get back.

 

[petesbrew]

Maybe the moderators can start up a new subforum for these "I hate megaswill" topics.
It seems like theres one every fortnight .... in which I also stupidly post a reply somewhere.

Anyway, at least there's always Tooheys Old. I still enjoy that megaswill.

 

[mfdes]

I disagree - not a boring thread at all.
It's just hitting a raw nerve with some of you that many of us could have such negative opinions of this "beer". I think it's a good discussion, with many perfectly valid opinions being expressed, and some insightful discussion going on.

Hi Hutch,
I've actually been making the opposite point if you read my posts. I think the large breweries make a very successful product that people evidently enjoy and does exactly what it's designed for, in the Australian market.

My boring comment is that we're starting to see points being repeated more than once. Time to move on for me.
MFS.

 

[neonmeate]

after 9 pages we still don't know what it is that makes it so crap! and i honestly want to know... all the posters with inside info are defending megaswill to the death because it's successful therefore good, and won't tell us why it tastes so bad... (or tell us that if it tastes bad it's only cause it's poorly handled/or it's all in our minds because we're snobs). but i don't care how many "awards" tooheys and CUB have won, all their beers taste like they're mashed with cat litter and fermented with toejam.

 

[warrenlw63]

fermented with toejam.

:icon_vomit:

Warren -

 

[staggalee]

:icon_vomit:

Warren -

Cop that, yer pommy ******* {Barry McKenzie 1971}
Who started this anyway?
Get a rope, lets string im up.

stagga.

 

[mfdes]

Hahaha.

Taste is so subjective I think the point being made is that just because it tastes bad to YOU doesn't mean it's a bad product.
I don't like spirits. To me they just taste bad. Not just bad, pukingly awful.
That doesn't mean I get stuck onto my brother in law when he's enjoying a nice Johnny Walker Black Label. He enjoys it, good on him.

MFS.

 

[Thirsty Boy]

after 9 pages we still don't know what it is that makes it so crap! and i honestly want to know... all the posters with inside info are defending megaswill to the death because it's successful therefore good, and won't tell us why it tastes so bad... (or tell us that if it tastes bad it's only cause it's poorly handled/or it's all in our minds because we're snobs). but i don't care how many "awards" tooheys and CUB have won, all their beers taste like they're mashed with cat litter and fermented with toejam.

Not so my friend... in post number 10 of this thread I gave you the insidest information you are likely to get along with a reasonably carefully thought through theory about why that relates to the sorts of tastes you are likely to find in an Australian Mega beer.

The following 8 pages has been spattered with a mix of speculation, philosophy and rubbish.

You might note that very few people are actually saying that the beers being talked about taste good, the debate has been more about what constitutes crap.

For the record, using this post as a straw poll - most of what people believe happens in a large brewery doesn't, most of the things that they think get put into the beer produced by a large brewery dont and most of the things that large brewerys actually do do, or do put into their beer, don't happen for the reason that people think they do.

Thats what shits me ... I don't care a bloody zot if people hate the beers I make at work, I don't care if they shout it from the damn rooftops, but if they are going to state a reason for their perceived crapness... get it right or be prepared for a correction. Unless you actually know about the ingredients, or the process, or the people, or the adjuncts, or the additives .... don't spout off about them.

You're contention that the beers are mashed with cat littler and fermented with toejam is around as accurate as some of the other stuff I have read in this thread.... but at least it was funny. (oh and screw you too - some of them are good dammit )

Critisise away people. I promise to not "defend" beers that I have plainly stated that I don't actually like......................

 

[staggalee]

the dogs bark, and slowly like time in a bottle, the caravan moves on :lol:

stagga.

 

[AndrewQLD]

Thats what shits me ... I don't care a bloody zot if people hate the beers I make at work, I don't care if they shout it from the damn rooftops, but if they are going to state a reason for their perceived crapness... get it right or be prepared for a correction. Unless you actually know about the ingredients, or the process, or the people, or the adjuncts, or the additives .... don't spout off about them.

I was going to keep out of this but T.B's post above has prompted me to break silence.

The above quote is probably about the most accurate and insightful thing I have read in this whole thread.
The amount of posts that spout so called "factual" information that are blatantly just heresay or urban myths handed down from one brewer to another with no basis in fact is astounding.

What ThirstyBoy is saying above is that unless you have first hand knowledge of the information you are putting forward on this, or any other site, you really should be most carefull what you post.

On this site alone we have several members who are actively working in breweries around the country, members who have completed brewing degrees, and you will probably notice they tend to steer clear of topics such as this and I suspect it may well be to avoid the negative responses that so often seem to go hand in hand with these threads.

In all honesty, I drink VB and I don't like APA's but that doesn't make my beers shit or commercial brews crap, it's just my preferences.

Cheers
Andrew

 

[Hutch]

...
For the record, using this post as a straw poll - most of what people believe happens in a large brewery doesn't, most of the things that they think get put into the beer produced by a large brewery dont and most of the things that large brewerys actually do do, or do put into their beer, don't happen for the reason that people think they do.

Hi TB,

I think you're perfectly justified in defending the reputation and ability of the people you work with, and like you I agree that they do a miraculous job at producing a consistent product, regardless of what that product is (I'm talking about the Big volume stuff here).

So far there's been a lot of argument and rhetorical debate on this topic, however what is obviously missing is any REAL factual information about what actually MAKES this beer the way it is - this is what I believe the original topic was trying to explore!

There's plenty of speculation and opinions about hops/isohop, preservatives, adjuncts, sugars, etc. but what many of us would like to know is EXACTLY what they do to produce this type of beer. I'm not suggesting you lose your job by providing us with a photocopied recipe for VB (for want of an example), but I think a lot of myths would be debunked if you (or any others here that know THE FACTS) could enlighten us with what you know, under the relative anonymity of a public forum:

* Sugar
* Adjuncts and enzymes
* preservatives
* Mashing regime
* Fermentation temp and yeast strain(s) (that might get you into trouble!)
* Lagering duration/ temperature
* Blending
* Pre-packaging treatment (filtering, pasturisation, etc.)


Also, it's also been mentioned earlier that isohop is used in certain brews, though I'm not convinced this is as big a culprit as I once thought - please correct me if I'm wrong.
So, does anyone want to share what they actually know?

Hutch.

 

[sponge]

Who started this anyway?
Get a rope, lets string im up.

Im sorry.... haha. Ill sit back in the corner. i didnt actually expect this debate to go on, just was after an answer from someone who knew some inside info such as what thirsty boy has already been saying. its made like it tastes because thats what people enjoy.


I will admit that when i go to a pub with not a whole lot of selection, i will always be able to find either tooheys old or kent old brown. as someone has mentioned, a lot of it is to do with the social side of drinking. i will happily drink an old/brown with a few mates at the local, or if someone buys me another schooey of something i dont like as much, ill still drink it. its not my favourite but if drank fast enough its slightly drinkable.

Thats what shits me ... I don't care a bloody zot if people hate the beers I make at work, I don't care if they shout it from the damn rooftops, but if they are going to state a reason for their perceived crapness... get it right or be prepared for a correction. Unless you actually know about the ingredients, or the process, or the people, or the adjuncts, or the additives .... don't spout off about them.

Well said. all i was after was some facts and not opinions. oh well. its made for some good reading at uni none the less


Sponge

 

[staggalee]

Who gives a shit what he`s mumbling about? This is a beer forum, and by God it should be treated as such, not a roost for would be academics to get on a soapbox.

stagga.

 

[peas_and_corn]

:huh: That's a lot of Millmasters going flat-out

Nah, they bought a bunch of Monster mills on a bulk buy