What Is The Next Step Up From K&k?

[Jase71]

Obviously one of the exclusive mentalities here. In the english language, brewing is the process of making alcohol through fermentation.....

 

[PostModern]

To be brutally honest, K&K/Extract is just not brewing. You aren't brewing anything. You're (maybe boiling and) fermenting.

Mashing is brewing.

Let's not open that can of worms (yet) again!

 

[PostModern]

Obviously one of the exclusive mentalities here. In the english language, brewing is the process of making alcohol through fermentation.....

Not really. You don't "brew" wine.

From dictionary.reference.com

# To make (ale or beer) from malt and hops by infusion, boiling, and fermentation.

EDIT: Damn, cut myself on the can's lid again.

 

[brendo]

I think that anyone who is 'brewing' - regardless if approach - K&K, K&B, Extract, Partial or AG is doing a really good thing - exploring their interest in beer and actually getting their hands dirty in the process (albeit maybe only scratching the surface).

This can only be a good thing - and will surely only enhance ones appreciation of beer and different styles.

I think it is extremely narrowminded to suggest that AG is the only true form of brewing - seems a tad elitist to me. We all have to start somewhere.

I have progressed from k&k to k&b to now extract based brews. I have been pleased with the advances I have been able to make with each of these steps and am now looking to make the move in the next six months to AG.

I think that anything that stimulates one's interest in the hobby is worthwhile, and if that means taking baby-steps, so be it.

I find it disappointing that some here believe that these intermediatary steps are a waste of time... are they absolutely necessary, perhaps not, but I don't think that invalidates the experience one can gain by taking them.

Just my 2c... for what it is worth... which is possibly not a great deal...

brendo

 

[PostModern]

I think it is extremely narrowminded to suggest that AG is the only true form of brewing - seems a tad elitist to me. We all have to start somewhere.

I don't think that way at all. If I've portrayed that impression, I've expressed myself poorly.

OP just seemed to think there were steps involved in going from kits to AG. In the topic title "next step" implies that there will be more. I'm just suggesting that if he's serious, he'll end up at AG eventually, and speaking purely from my own perspective, he may as well take a BIG step over the intermediate methods. Lack of support is not a problem.

 

[Fermented]

[smiling]

Who cares what it's called?

We're all having fun and learning something and making a product which we enjoy and seek to improve.

Doubtless, the journey will be different for some of us.

Drink up!

Cheers - Fermented.

 

[brendo]

I don't think that way at all. If I've portrayed that impression, I've expressed myself poorly.

OP just seemed to think there were steps involved in going from kits to AG. In the topic title "next step" implies that there will be more. I'm just suggesting that if he's serious, he'll end up at AG eventually, and speaking purely from my own perspective, he may as well take a BIG step over the intermediate methods. Lack of support is not a problem.

Hey Postmodern,

I wasn't singling anyone out in particular - and certainly not yourself. I agree that going from kits to AG can certainly be done - this site and topic has numerous examples of people who have done just that.

i think it just comes back to your comfort level and I don't think that the benefits of moving straight to AG necessarily invalidates an alternative path to possibly the same destination.

And i would certainly not complain about a lack of support - this site and it's members are an absolute wealth of information and one that I have certainly benefited from trawling through. A big general thankyou to anyone who has helped me along the way - particularly with some of my earleir and more obvious inqueries.

The biggest thing for me is that I have fun brewing, my wife helps me out and enjoys the process and the end result is that I have managed to produce a bunch of beers that I am pretty damn happy with. I have enjoyed the journey so far and am looking to even better results as I get more experienced and refine my techniques even further.

Brendo

 

[stm]

For me the next step up from K&K is to, has been go into extract brewing, be that liquid malt or dry malt for other brewers, I have only used dry extract. I have done some kits and bits basically to use up old stock and in comparison to un-hopped extract I would choose un-hopped extract every time.
My reasons for this are that extract can work out a little cheaper than highly tweaking kits, depending on how you tweak kits and what you pay for ingredients. The flavor of all extract brewing adding specialty grain and hops is far better than tweaking kits. All extract brewing does not require the scale of equipment that AG does, I am using a 12 litre for boiling and a 7 litre stockpot for steeping grains and a two dollar strainer. Sixty minute boils can be done on the kitchen stove-top.
I will probably...most likely... inevitably... well you get the idea, go into AG. In the meantime though I will keep on doing extracts and partials until I get enough equipment and experience together to do AG.

By the way is it worth the extra effort to leave kits behind? YES and you won't go back.

Cheers
Gavo

Yes, what Gavo (and Brendo) said. Although I only use one 8L pot (with a home made grain bag for the spec grains). More than happy with extract + extras brewing. Minimal cost, space and equipment requirements, and it is possible to make a great variety of great beers. And don't those AGers get over-excited?!

 

[Mantis]

I agree with the general consensus of going straight to all grain, I made my first 11 beers from liquid extract, hopped it myself and used saf yeasts, and it all tasted very ordinary at best. My worst all grain was better than my best extract attempt, yes i know my technique has improved, but if i brewed an extract today i know it wouldnt be a patch on all grain.
Important to note, extract brewing is the most expensive type of brewing - $40-50 for a 25 litre batch, all grain is easily half the price or less, so outlay on equipment is soon recouped.
I brewed about 325 litres of beer last year for $280 (ingredients only) add bottlecaps & cleaner etc.
The equivelent in extract brewing would cost $600+ & in the bottleshop even at $14 a 6 pack would be well over $2K.
If you're not ready for all grain, some of the brewshops sell uncondensed pre hopped wort, comes in 18 litres, can be thinned to 23 & can be modified. General prices are $40-50 including the yeast. If i couldnt / didnt want to mash, this would be the next best thing.
Welcome to the slippery slope of always wanting to bring your beer to a new level, as soon an you improve your malt, you'll change focus to the hops, yeast or water. Before you know it you'll have a mini industrial brewery in your house...which can only be a good thing :chug:

$40-50 for 25lt, woa back there. I am doing 25lt batches of extract for much less
3tins Coopers LME $24
300g Crystal $3
65g Hops $5
US-05 $2

$34 for 25lt of full strength brew

 

[Jase71]

Brendo & stm, please refrain from using the term 'brewing'. Apparantly that's not what you're doing at all. I also had another brewday sccribbled into my diary for the weekend, I'm going to need to change that to 'cordial preparation with malt, grains & hops with aim to ferment beverage that may or may not even really be beer'

 

[petesbrew]

I think you've made the next step, by joining this site.
However you want to brew, and how quickly you want to progress, there's heaps of helpful guys here to point you in the right direction.
Definitely meet up with some brewers in your area and try their beers. It's great fun and a huge eye opener.

I had a look over my old recipes on the weekend, and had a bit of a laugh at what i concocted. The things I threw cascade in... man it's no wonder I hated that hop for a bit!

Good luck.

 

[Mantis]

I like my extract brews and so does my wife . So take that you AG dudes :beerbang:

 

[Mantis]

But I do intend to do an all grain BIAB soon

 

[Katherine]

I had a look over my old recipes on the weekend, and had a bit of a laugh at what i concocted. The things I threw cascade in... man it's no wonder I hated that hop for a bit!

We still have our old k&k and extract recipe book its a great keepsake and laugh!

We are doing the same for all grain!

 

[PostModern]

You extract guys are funny. Sure making/brewing (the terms in common usage don't necessarily reflect the dictionary definitions ) a beer with extract is beer. The infusion part has just been done for you by Coopers or Bintani or whoever. When you (well, AG brewers) run the wort out of the mash tun, the product is sweet wort, also referred to as extract. You guys just save the hassle and "mess" of the process, which is good, but the cost to you is lack of control of the extract. This is all I was trying to get across.

 

[drsmurto]

Jase

Still stand by my comment that you should catch up with an AG on a brewday to see the process, see how simple the equipment can be, and to taste an AG beer.

Good AG beer is better than kit beer for the same reason that real spag bol is better than dolmio, and real coffee is better than instant.

Thats not an elitist opinion, that simple logic. Fresh ingredients = better final product. Extract is a processed ingredient no matter how fresh it is.

FWIW - i still think using a kit is brewing, just a more simplified version.

Cheers
DrSmurto

EDIT- and +1 what Pomo said.

 

[brendo]

Brendo & stm, please refrain from using the term 'brewing'. Apparantly that's not what you're doing at all. I also had another brewday sccribbled into my diary for the weekend, I'm going to need to change that to 'cordial preparation with malt, grains & hops with aim to ferment beverage that may or may not even really be beer'

LOL... not sure how the Minister of Finance would feel about the 46 lts of cordial I have fermenting in the back room... :beerbang:

incidentally... is that how Corona is created - it says beer cordial on the back of the bottle...

Brendo

 

[brendo]

Still stand by my comment that you should catch up with an AG on a brewday to see the process, see how simple the equipment can be, and to taste an AG beer.

I myself am planning on heading down to my local brew club for the first time next week to further my education and also plan on taking up one of the member's offers to observe one of their AG brew sessions in the near future... all part of the demystification process for me :icon_cheers:

 

[Katherine]

just save the hassle and "mess" of the process, which is good, but the cost to you is lack of control of the extract. This is all I was trying to get across.

I love the MESS!.... I nearly have my back garden bed at back full of grain mulch!

 

[Mantis]

I love the MESS!.... I nearly have my back garden bed at back full of grain mulch!

Sounds good. I reckon if I do go AG and use say 4-5kg grain a week then I wouldnt have to buy any more chook pellots :icon_chickcheers: