What Is The Next Step Up From K&k?

[muckey]

I agree with Dr Smurto. go and catch a brewday - its a life changing experience.

I dont disagree with comments advocating stepping straight to all grain but it really is going to depend on the individual.

even using canned extracts, there is a lot that can be learned along the way about hops, malt and specialty grains and yeasts as well
for those who have never brewed errrm mixed adjuncts and ingredients to make a beer like liquid slow steps can be a good way to build up confidence.

I have to say though, now I've started AG there is no going back

 

[jonocarroll]

What Is The Next Step Up From K&k?

It's only recently that I asked myself this question. I had done a whole bunch of K&K with really good results (the AG purists will challenge 'good' here - product that I was VERY happy to drink, and proud of) and this year decided to get a little more complicated and experiment, so I went to partials. Very little extra equipment (if any) but a good insight into grains/hops/yeasts/boils/chills/etc...

Lots of reading up, talking to people who know more than me, websites, etc. My partials were a definite improvement on the K&K and I learned a lot. I have a few mates who do AG, and I went along to see how much harder THAT next step is, and got hooked, so now I'm working on my own setup. That's not to say I won't do another K&K or partial (my 'Meggs' Ginger Beer is probably more suited to that) - but it's all about the process.

IMHO I would recommend having a go at partials and going along to some AG days (you can really learn a lot at these that will apply). Ignore anyone who says you have to dive right in, and anyone who says it's impossible to dive right in. Go at the pace that suits you and if you feel like getting a more complicated setup then go for it.

A photographer can know all the theory involved and still take crap photos. Or they can have the world's greatest camera and still take crap photos. They can have a very simple point-and-shoot and take a great shot. It's a mixture that makes things work, but most of all - you have to enjoy what you're doing.

Good luck, enjoy, and of course "relax, don't worry, have a homebrew" :beer: (can I get sued for saying that?)

 

[antains]

Ok, I have been k&k'ing for some time now and am wondering how to improve my results?

...

I really don't want to get into all grain due to the mess involved.

So is there a middle ground?

...

To be ON TOPIC, I'm with you MickC. I'm done with the plain old extracts. I'm planning on doing some small experiments to see what the effects are of different ingredients. They are baby steps, but I see them as crucial to understanding what I'm doing to the process. I'm going to do this by halving brews down to 11 or so litres per wort, so I'm not generating a whole lot of waste.

At the same, Brendo has just supplied me with a couple of recipes that require a major shift in production for me. Rather than be daunted by cracking grains and pinching our bloody big saucepan for a few hours, I'm going to give it a go.

So, I'm kind of heeding PostModern's suggestion at the same time as ignoring it: baby steps and leaps and bounds, but at the same time. It should hopefully abate my impatience and stimulate my curiousity.

Back to the OFF-TOPIC matter of K&K versus AG: I think you should all STFU, HTFU and have a beer.

We're all here, on this forum, because we're working towards making something we love. Yes, we have different processes. Arguably, one will lead to the other, if an individual chooses to do so. For some, that's just not going to be feasible, whether it's down to practicalities or finances.

If hairs are going to be split and boundaries defined, then set up an AG forum or, since the definition seems to be prohibitive of K&K, kick out all the K&K sections.

Seriously, a lot of good points have been made to support each side, but factions are for simpletons and simpletons drink mega-swill.

I'd like to head down the path of AG, but I want to understand more about what I am capable of before I get to that crossroad. I hope, if I'm ever an AGer, that I understand why some folks are on kits and support them regardless.

Incidentally, this topic has helped me decide where I'm going for my lunch break: The pub!

And if anyone has taken an issue with what I've written, then I apologise for not expressing myself clearly, because I'm basically saying THUMBS UP, but get over it.

 

[Jase71]

Still stand by my comment that you should catch up with an AG on a brewday to see the process, see how simple the equipment can be, and to taste an AG beer.

I couldn't agree more ! Anyone in Sydney need an apprentice for the day, please PM me. I promise I won't bring any of my terrible, awful non-brewed beers over.....

Hmm, how is the human process of open dialogue off topic ? It's an unfolding discussion. Human evolution's a great thing, and there's nary a need to set boundaries and stunt the growth of a seed that is an idea.

Now THAT was off-topic !

 

[antains]

Hmm, how is the human process of open dialogue off topic ? It's an unfolding discussion. Human evolution's a great thing, and there's nary a need to set boundaries and stunt the growth of a seed that is an idea.

Now THAT was off-topic !

:icon_offtopic:
Alright, fair point.

The human process I enjoy out of these types of discussions is learning about the people one may never actually meet by observing what baits them and what eggs them on.

Dialogue and discussion do have their natural courses to run. I don't disagree.

I just wanted to make a distinction between two thoughts I wanted to contribute to this thread, because there were two topics being addressed.

Anyway, maybe I just wanted to demonstrate I might be able to contribute more than bad jokes.

 

[stm]

Brendo & stm, please refrain from using the term 'brewing'. Apparantly that's not what you're doing at all. I also had another brewday sccribbled into my diary for the weekend, I'm going to need to change that to 'cordial preparation with malt, grains & hops with aim to ferment beverage that may or may not even really be beer'

Duly noted! :lol:

 

[Bizier]

I thought I was going to go BIAB AG, but out of my control, I had to move house. Now I am in an apartment with no balcony. I have chosen the partial approach, because I can't deal with the volume of grain waste and general mess, or even sheer size of equipment. So I am resigned to at least a year of partial mash brewing.

You can make good (read MUCH BETTER than kit) beer with extract, plus you learn what the different ingredients add.

 

[Bribie G]

I'm going AG - mostly for UK Bitters - but I tell you what, my second last partial brew, a fake lager, has turned out just what I have been looking for in a lager style beer. It's basically just a can of Coopers Lager plus a one kilo minimash with Perle malt. I have been getting muddy extract 'twangs' with my all extract brews so as an experiment I chucked in a kilo of dex instead to try for a cleaner finish.

Three hop additions of Green Bullet and BSaaz, Nottingham ale yeast, gelatine finings, Polyclar clear-out.



Drank the above one immediately after getting home from the local bowls club after a schooner of Pure Blonde and :icon_drool2: .

So AG is the way to go for controlling ingredients and crafting a great beer, but I'll be doing my partial lager again and again, and not knocking kits plus bits.

 

[Fermented]

I thought I was going to go BIAB AG, but out of my control, I had to move house. Now I am in an apartment with no balcony. I have chosen the partial approach, because I can't deal with the volume of grain waste and general mess, or even sheer size of equipment. So I am resigned to at least a year of partial mash brewing.

You can make good (read MUCH BETTER than kit) beer with extract, plus you learn what the different ingredients add.

I agree with you wholeheartedly.

Not sure what the balcony has to do with it?

I'm an apartment dweller for the next two to three years while I make enough scratch to go buy a house around here, so the extracts may still be for my quick and dirties but all malt is an easy upgrade and AG will just have to wait. By the time I get the house I will have enough experience and hopefully finesse with the other ingredients so that the learning process of AG can be just as cheerful and mind expanding (and liver shrinking).

Cheers - Fermented.

 

[Barley Belly]

US-05 $2

Where ya getting ya US05 for $2?

 

[Barley Belly]

You extract guys are funny. Sure making/brewing (the terms in common usage don't necessarily reflect the dictionary definitions ) a beer with extract is beer. The infusion part has just been done for you by Coopers or Bintani or whoever. When you (well, AG brewers) run the wort out of the mash tun, the product is sweet wort, also referred to as extract. You guys just save the hassle and "mess" of the process, which is good, but the cost to you is lack of control of the extract. This is all I was trying to get across.

Don't you AG guys get someone to grow and roast the grain for you???

Surely you don't have total control???

 

[Katherine]

Don't you AG guys get someone to grow and roast the grain for you???

Surely you don't have total control???

Oh come on... how much land would you need! We also trust people grow our hops!

 

[Stuster]

Not sure what the balcony has to do with it?

AG is certainly easier with a balcony. Can do all the boiling there. I wouldn't want to be doing AG inside. :blink:

 

[Barley Belly]

Oh come on... how much land would you need! We also trust people grow our hops!

Is it TOTAL control?
Is it 100% fresh?

How could ya know, if ya don't grow?

Just my 2c (hard to type one handed, with a cut from my tin of cordial on my hand)

 

[Fermented]

AG is certainly easier with a balcony. Can do all the boiling there. I wouldn't want to be doing AG inside. :blink:

Ah OK... I have a reasonably potent gas cook top and cook predominantly pungent foods (as do quite a few neighbours - smells better than a restaurant around here on the balcony at night) so smell and heat aren't issues for me.

Thanks for clarifying.

Cheers - Fermented.

 

[Katherine]

Just my 2c (hard to type one handed, with a cut from my tin of cordial on my hand)

Have you thought I investing in a electric can opener??? Less cuts and less effort...

 

[muckey]

if you set up your can in a vice over the fermenter and use an angle gringder to open it, you can get your goo out easily and aerate it at the same time h34r:


:spelling doh!!

 

[Stuster]

Ah OK... I have a reasonably potent gas cook top and cook predominantly pungent foods (as do quite a few neighbours - smells better than a restaurant around here on the balcony at night) so smell and heat aren't issues for me.

You're lucky to have a good gas stove. My electric one did not really appreciate trying to get the wort to the boil in my first few AGs. It's more the boil off of liquids than the smell. Boiling off several litres of water can lead to a bit of condensation. B)

 

[jeremy]

+1 for Grumpys / Stillbrewing. This is where I started my transition from kits to AG (done about 10 AGs now). Start with a Masterbrew (all instructions included, 10 minute, 3 litre boil, flavour & aroma hops only, easy), move on to extrabrew (1 hr boil, 5ish litres, bitter, flavour and aroma hops), move onto superbrew (3kg partial mash).

Once you have mastered the superbrew, you are well equipped for AG. Even if you only do one or two of each it does the trick.

No affilliation either etc, etc.

 

[PostModern]

Don't you AG guys get someone to grow and roast the grain for you???

Surely you don't have total control???

Don't put words in my mouth. Where did I say "total" control? No, the farmer grows the seed, the maltster malts the seed and I mash the seed that I want in the beer I am brewing. Much more choice of grain than there is of extract, and many many different things can be done with things like water profiles, mash temperature and duration, runoff speed, milling gaps, etc etc etc.

Of course there are plenty of things extract and minimashers can do with their fermentable bill. Hell, I brewed that way for years myself and made some great beers, but believe it or not, the best compliment I got for one of my beers was "you can't taste the extract!" I don't regret going AG and I recommend anyone with even a hint of curiousity to check it out. The results are brilliant and the process can be a lot of fun (yes, as no doubt it is with even kits and bits).

To be frank and to put the arguments aimed at me at rest, I love drinking a good beer, no matter how it's made. One of the best APAs I've had was made by a former member of my local club and it was extract, crystal and hops. It came second in NSW 2007, iirc, and deservedly.