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What is that taste?

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NuggetSA

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I've just bottled a toucan brew (coopers real ale/coopers canadian/150g DLM) which aside from being a bit over-hopped is pretty good, certainly better than my more recent kit n' kilo brews. But it still has that "ting" that I just can't pick. I suppose its a 'homebrew' taste but that is a little offensive as I have mates that homebrew pure nectar of the gods...

All the kits were in date, used a coopers yeast.

Its a slightly fruity metallic taste - is that just a factor of using the tins or is there a way to fix it? This is probably a question already answered but I haven't been able to find that conclusive answer that magically solves the problem.
 

tricache

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Yeah anything in a tin (kit goo or malt extract) usually produces it...I have found it in both my kit and extract beers.
 

bum

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NuggetSA said:
I haven't been able to find that conclusive answer that magically solves the problem.
How many other problems in any field have you found one of these for? It is even harder in home brew.

Sounds like "kit twang" to me. I found it could sometimes be covered up by very heavyhanded use of spec grains and late hops. This always faded in my experience and the twang came back - maybe your brews don't last as long as mine (I tend not to share) and that wouldn't be an issue.

You could also shift to brewing with un-bittered extract, adding your own bitterness by boiling up some hops in wort. I disagree with Triache that tinned, unbittered extract pushes twang to the front. Although it is easier to use dry extract anyway, IMO.

Or you could ask your mates fro their recipes and process - sounds like they have it sorted.
 

GalBrew

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Yep, that is good old kit twang. There are only 2 things you can do, steep grains and boil hops in a partial boil setup or go to all grain brewing. I would go with the latter and you can say goodbye to kit twang for ever!!!
 

carniebrew

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Your mates who 'homebrew pure nectar of the gods'...are they doing kit brews? And when you say you used Coopers yeast, do you mean the stuff that came with the tin?

Did you ferment the beer under temperature control? What kind of temps?
 

carniebrew

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tricache said:
Yeah anything in a tin (kit goo or malt extract) usually produces it...I have found it in both my kit and extract beers.
I dunno, I bottled an extract/spec grain pale ale brew back on Dec 9 ...it used a tin of Coopers Light LME and a tin of Coopers Wheat LME. It was judged at Beerfest on Feb 15, one judge gave it 36/50....and nobody mentioned anything about a twang, so I don't think the tin has anything to do with it. Unless maybe it's old/out of date? Straight after that brew I switched to bulk extract in 15kg sizes (plastic containers from Briess), so that was my only full extract brew out of tin.

I've only ever made 3 kit brews (2 with Coopers Wheat, 1 with Coopers Draught), none of which had any twang that I could taste, and neither could my mates. There's all sorts of theories about water, extract, fermentation temp, kit yeast...nobody seems to have nailed the cause. I wonder if it happens more with certain brands/styles?

I'd love to know if any of the judges at beerfest recently noted a "kit twang" in any beers, that could then be compared against how it was made. Do any/many kit beers get entered in those sorts of comps?
 

AndrewQLD

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As carnie mentioned what is your fermentation temp?
One of the biggest causes of off flavours in home brewing is fermenting at temps over the yeasts tolerance.
Most of the kit producers are happy to recommend temps over 25c because they don't want to make it seem too hard to brew at home, if you can get your fermentation temps below 24c and ideally 20c for the ale yeast that comes with the kits you will get a very clean fermentation with little "home brew" flavour or aroma.

Apart from that you have a hell of a lot of malt in that recipe which would have a fairly high final gravity, are you possibly tasting a lot of the unfermented malt that is tasting like, well unfermented malt?
 

labels

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Buy Palmers 'How to Brew' book

This book should be in every beginners brewing library. I still refer to it now after 10+ years of brewing

Does extract, partial mash and full mash brewing and everything in-between and will answer practically all your questions.

-=Steve=-
 

dicko

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I personally think it relates directly to how the tin of goo is treated before you buy it.
The hops in most of those tins as far as I know are now isohop and isohop gives a strange mettalic type taste even in beers like West End Draught and other commercial examples imo.
If you persist in using these extract tins then what I have found is that if you do a partial mash of base grain and add some finishing hops you may disguise that taste.
My theory is based on the fact that we live in a regional centre and my son, who uses tins of goo exclusively has this "taste" in a lot of his beers.
My thought is that the tins are subject to extremes in temperature and generally poor handling at times and in some circumstances.

In the past I have had a mate get two tins of goo from Adelaide and had me brew them for a xmas show in 2011. I did a partial mash and made 46 litres without any finishing hops and the beers were very good with none of that "twang" and were accepted as " as good as you get in the pub" which were comments from the consumers.
I personally think it is just as easy to do a full mash as a partial mash as it takes the same amount of time, cleaning etc. and a quick search on here will find stovetop methods in fine detail fo mash brewing.
By doing your brew this way you will have more control over the freshness of ingredients.
Probably not exactly what you wanted to hear but I hope it will help.

Cheers
 

citizensnips

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For me I only ever made one good kit out of 6. They all had the twang and I had temperature control. Since going to biab I have made 6, all of which have been the same quality as craft beer, the taste I associated with kit is completely gone and I couldn't be happier with the beers.
My 2c
 

carniebrew

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What was the good kit out of the 6 Eddy?
 

Econwatson

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eddy22 said:
For me I only ever made one good kit out of 6. They all had the twang and I had temperature control. Since going to biab I have made 6, all of which have been the same quality as craft beer, the taste I associated with kit is completely gone and I couldn't be happier with the beers.
My 2c
thedragon was telling me that he finds K&K beer takes longer to bottle condition to a good standard than AG batches do. Did you leave the batch that tasted good for longer before you tried it?

I'm waiting on a toucan (Euro Lager/Canadian Blonde with US-05) to condition. I tried one and I liked it, but there's still something there that tastes a little off!
 

jakethesnake559

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Fruitiness can often come from fermenting at a high temperature.
Try keeping the temp constant at around 18 for an ale.
If you are willing to spend a bit extra on ingredients, try doing a Fresh Wort kit...no kit twang and excellent results.
 

Nick JD

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It's the Twang Fairies.

They come round to your place and sprinkle a mixture of iron filings, apple skin shavings and copper oxide into your fermenter while you sleep.

The only way to make them disappear is to say with me, "I don't believe K&K beer is real beer".

Say it with me now, kiddies. Say it.

That's right.
 

jimmyfozzers

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Nugget, maybe just give the beer a chance to bottle condition. I had a stubby of my second brew (a Coopers Canadian Blonde kit brewed at 18C) this evening which is about 5 weeks in the bottle. Up until last week it had the 'twang', but it was much reduced when I tasted tonight. I'm quickly learning that patience is a virtue with this hobby!

While I don't doubt that kit/extract twang exists to varying degrees (and palates), time in the bottle does seem to help.
 

NuggetSA

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Thanks everyone, there are a couple of really good points in there.

I think the culprit may be impatience - I did the whole brew between 18-20 degrees using ice blankets and a wet towel but I pitched the yeast at close to 30 degrees, something I have to admit I've always done (sometimes hotter.) I now am realising the error of my ways... It took a good 10 hours to get down to 20 with the assistance of a fan, it was bubbling in about 6. Feel pretty stupid but gotta learn through mistakes I guess - or just looking up how to do it properly before diving in head first.

Going to try another one this weekend, fingers crossed.
 

jimmyfozzers

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Yeah my first brew was pitched at over 30 degrees and I took around 36 hours to get it down to 18-20. The brew never recovered and time in the bottle certainly hasn't helped either...drinking even one stubby of that stuff guarantees a headache half an hour later!
 

citizensnips

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carniebrew said:
What was the good kit out of the 6 Eddy?
twas a sparkling ale, was quite a while ago but heres the recipe from my notes


Coopers Sparkling Ale:
  • Thomas Coopers Sparkling Ale Kit
  • Black Rock 1.5kg Light Malt
  • Roughly 12g’s East Kent
    Golding’s
  • 300g Dextrose
  • Re-Cultured Coopers Sparkling
    Ale Yeast
Cheers
 

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