Homebrew twang

[siege]

I've been making extract beers and also some kit/can ones and have noticed a big difference in quality. Am wondering if it's observer bias or if other people are noticing the same thing. details here they come:

My first beers used coopers pale ale tins and had a pretty horrid 'homebrew twang' which I put down to no temp control in the laundry, and the same recipe was certainly better once I build a couple of ferm fridges.

Since then I have been using bulk unhopped Briess LME which comes in HDPE bottles and also for the rye extract comes in an HDPE tub. Adding all the hops and steeped grains that I want means more variety but a number of these beers have got pretty good reviews from mates and noone has mentioned a homebrew twang. I can't taste it in any of these beers.

But I recently threw together another quick batch with a green tin I still had lying around and I reckon it had that taste again. A brewtuber I follow also said he reckons the taste comes from the actual metal tin the LME is sold/stored in.

So should we just be staying away from extract tins as a blanket rule? Bulk LME is certainly cheaper than small LME tins. I haven't done the maths on if buying bittering hops + the extra energy consumption in a longer boil is more expensive than hopped extract bitterness but don't really care, I like to be able to choose to bitter with simcoe instead of POR.

 

[pat_00]

I think the tins can definitely impart a twang. When I changed to using DME and doing extract brewing, it went away.

 

[wereprawn]

Pretty much. Don't know why, as the tins have a plastic coating on the inside. Years ago i used to be able to buy extract from the LHBS from a large plastic drum. No twang. Using tins of unhopped extract bought back the twang.

 

[pat_00]

I think it's an age thing. Some of those cans have been sitting around a while. I didn't always get the twang with the goo tins, but it happened a lot.

 

[smoo]

Some of the twang can be caused by old LME. LME oxidises overtime whereas DME doesn't.
http://beersmith.com/blog/2008/08/16/malt-extract-beer-brewing/

 

[siege]

that's a good read. even though my LME is in plastic I think I'll have to make some space in the bottles fridge for the extract

 

[Waratah67]

I always thought it was the Coopers yeast. The stuff inside the lid is not refrigerated, under weight and old. It is also NOT the same yeast they use in their commercial beers (that strain can't be dried). Just swapping the lid yeast for US05 in their pale ale totally eliminates twang in my experience.

 

[pcmfisher]

I always get twang from bittered kits. Yes, using a different yeast or bashing in a load of hops helps, but I still get that flavour.

If, however, I use a tin of unbittered liquid malt plus varying amounts of dry malt and dextrose depending on the body I want, doing a small 60min hop boil, I get no twang.

So for me it's not the tin it's the prebittered kit.

 

[siege]

You're probably right, it's the hopped LME which tastes weird. I've never used the yeast that comes with coopers tins because I read that it was crap before I ever did a batch.

 

[Bomber Watson]

I have always blamed the isohops they use for bittering.

 

[TheWiggman]

It's the age old question - how do I make my home brew not taste like home brew?
My experience has been the use of liquid malts. I tried some beers last year from a 'U-brew It'-type establishment and every single one of their beers, to me, tasted like home brew. They exclusively used unhopped liquid malt extract and Safale yeast for their ales. Still used hop pellets in the boil. I personally reckon that the 'twang' comes from the dehydration process and there are additional effects from storing in cans, especially over long periods. All that said I'm led to believe there have been some comp awards won for extract brewers but I've not yet tasted an extract-brewed beer that didn't taste like home brew.
Bomber, Coopers use their actual pale ale product (the same stuff as what's in the CPA bottles) for their pale ale home brew kits. Pretty sure Coopers don't use hop extract, iso or otherwise, for their bottled beers.

 

[Bomber Watson]

Ah well there ya go, never knew that.

What about the other tin varieties from coopers?

 

[siege]

Bomber, Coopers use their actual pale ale product (the same stuff as what's in the CPA bottles) for their pale ale home brew kits. Pretty sure Coopers don't use hop extract, iso or otherwise, for their bottled beers.

If that's true then it is an extremely recent development. For years Coopers has been openly telling homebrewers that it's not the same yeast but giving instructions on how to harvest the right yeast from a 6 pack of PA


#Edit. looks like you were referring to the extract, not the yeast. But even if that's true the extract is boiled much longer and stored in an aluminium can unlike their production beers.

 

[TheWiggman]

I won't say who told me that he/she is closely involved with the company. And yes, has worked there, but not for a few years.
Didn't confirm the other varieties. Of note too is that the kits typically aren't as bitter as the real thing so I'm guessing that the dehydration process somehow affects hop bitterness.

The extract isn't boiled much longer siege, it's typically vacuum evaporated. If it were boiled for extended lengths you'd get a darkening of the product and a difference in flavour. And correct me if I'm wrong but the last time I brewed with a tin it was made out of steel.

And even though it's OT, the yeast is the same stuff. I've read on this here forum that they filter the yeast from the primary then use krausening with some original wort and fresh yeast on bottling. Secondary fermentation for 2 weeks for the pale ale, then shipped.

 

[stewy]

I've tasted plenty of homebrew from pre-hopped tins & have never tasted a single one that didn't have twang

I've done loads of extract brews using DME & there is not a hint of twang. With a good recipe & temp control etc I've tried DME brews that are as good as craft.... Cannot say the same with pre-hopped goo. It all tastes shit

 

[KevinR]

I always get twang from bittered kits. Yes, using a different yeast or bashing in a load of hops helps, but I still get that flavour.

If, however, I use a tin of unbittered liquid malt plus varying amounts of dry malt and dextrose depending on the body I want, doing a small 60min hop boil, I get no twang.

So for me it's not the tin it's the prebittered kit.

Same with me. When i stopped using pre bittered tins it went away. Still use LME tins mostly Morgans and Coopers.last brew was Breiss LME ,turned out good.

 

[deadmansradio]

I have also noticed that tins produce twang, but I found these http://mangrovejacks.com/collections/craft-series-brewery-pouch. they are great!