What Is That Aagh Taste?

[Trent]

Dry yeast dont produce that "homebrew" taste trent. I still use dry yeast with great results ( mainly saflager w34/70 ).
VL

I wasnt too sure if it is actually dried yeast, or just my experience, so lucky I left myself enough room to be corrected! Thanks for clearing that up, VL, but have you tried S33, and if so, how did you find it? I dont really do any lagers, so have never tried saflager.
All the best
Trent

 

[Thunderlips]

Maybe you could think about doing a Fresh Wort Kit. That would allow you to compare and see if the taste is coming from the Kits you use or something else that your are doing.

[post="112644"][/post]​

I've got an ESB APA fresh wort in one of my kegs now, the very first one I've done. I used Wyeast 1056.
Initially I didn't really think much of it but it's improved so much after a few days in the keg that it really does deserve all the good things people say about it. I love it.
PP, have you tried liquid yeast yet? I split the packet into 6 test tubes so that brings the price down to around $2.50 per brew. If I recall correctly, Ross splits the packet into 10 test tubes.

 

[Jagungal]

Maybe you could think about doing a Fresh Wort I split the packet into 6 test tubes so that brings the price down to around $2.50 per brew. If I recall correctly, Ross splits the packet into 10 test tubes.

[post="112735"][/post]​

I just make a large starter, use some for the brew and split the rest off into a few more sterilised bottles, alternatively you can make a starter and split it up into bottles only - then split off again in future starters.

 

[Stuster]

Another in the endless stream of suggestions, PP.

You say you boil the kits. How long for, and in what volume of water?

Really hope we can fix this up for you.

:beer:

 

[Joel]

You're not using Morgans liquid malt extract are you? I made a few brews with this stuff a few years ago and they had the most pronounced 'home-brew' Aarrgghh! taste I've ever experienced. All tins of goo have it to a greater or lesser degree (hopped and unhopped tins of goo). I found even boiling it didn't get rid of that Morgans flavour as I now call it. (Some people swear by Morgans, but it all has that taste to me)

I have to agree with the others. Since I went AG (its only been a few brews so far) that taste has gone. Yes, even with my plastic fantastic electric brewery!

 

[Ross]

PP,

I'm only 20 - 25 mins from Southport - & more than happy for you to bring some beers round for an honest opinion & hopefully a bit of constructive guidance - You can also try a few AG beers on tap while you're here

Will be doing 4 brews next week - so if you have the time. more than happy to take you through the AG process - it really is far more simple than you probably realise....

Cheers Ross..

 

[PistolPatch]

Thanks again everyone. Have replied to the PMs received but my inbox was full so hope I haven't caused anyone inconvenience.

Going to try really hard to be brief here so I won't reply to everyone individually! Mind you I have had a few laughs! e.g. Jagungal's umm's and ahhh's! And Stephen's telling me to listen to my inner self! Good on ya!

ROSS: I didn't realise you were that close! Your kind offer is really appreciated and accepted. This would be brilliant. I will send you a PM in the morning as then I'll know what my movements are for the week. This is exciting stuff and may prevent me sending bottles out all over the country and making fellow brewer's sick! I better find out your favourite commercial beer so I don't arrive empty-handed!

HOPEYE: Was just joking about the Pilsner Urquell! Have been using all ale yeasts at around 20deg.

THOSE WHO SUGGESTED GOING AG: Happy to give this a go but have been really worried that if I can't do a kit, what sort of mess will I make of an AG. Ross will probably set me straight.

TRENT: Your suggestion to try liquid yeast sounds like an easy step and I'll track this down. Seems to tie in with a few other suggestions. I've been using the kit yeast and more recently Safale S33.

BATZ: I could do your suggestion too of geting the brew off primary faster. Leaving it on primary for a week currently then rack for another 7 days.

FRESH WORT: I'll ask Ross about this when I see him. Ross will know the shops up here that can look after me I hope.

STUSTER: Thanks for your best wishes! Boiling 6litres of water plus extrance and adjuncts for 60mins. Have also tried 20 minute boils and no boils!

JOEL: Mainly have used Morgans actually! Have just bought a few basic Cooper's Lager's in the hope that I would get the most basic kit right! An interesting comment of yours which I'll be able to check in the next week or so!

FINALLY!

Thanks again everyone and I'll post back here after catching up with Ross or trying any of your great ideas out.

Cheers
PP

(So much for being brief!)

 

[Stuster]

I think if you are going to boil kits/extracts you should try boiling at full volume, ie 20+ litres. If you can't do that, then just boil a part of the kit/DME with the hops/adjuncts etc.

Boiling all the fermentables in such a small volume is supposed to lead to the 'homebrew' taste, according to various things I have read/heard such as the Brewing Network shows. You certainly get a much darkened wort. Could be worth a go. :super:

 

[Aussie Claret]

PP,
I'm also on the Gold Coast 15mins away near Hope island, I'm happy to give you some suggestions and have a taste, let me know if you want any additional help.
AC

 

[hughman666]

Could it be yeast bite?

You maybe leaving the wort to long in the fermenter after fermentation is finished.
Try racking

Batz

PS. You can smell yeast bite as well,smells same as the ARR! taste

[post="112672"][/post]​

i used to get the aarrgh taste years ago when i first started brewing, then i gave up for a few years, convinced it couldn't produce good beer.

this was before the days of the internet and good advice was hard to come by.

late last year i got the urge to give it another crack. by keeping the temp constant (24c) rather than hunting for unrealistic low temps (i am in perth and it is summer) i found that the previous aaarrgh taste was far less noticeable than before.

i then began racking off to a secondary fermenter after 7 days in primary and leaving for another 7 days, and now i am enjoying really great tasting beers. this is just from using standard coopers & cascade kits with the typial booster kit (malt, dext & hops).

i have also found that good dried yeast makes all the difference.

 

[tangent]

THOSE WHO SUGGESTED GOING AG: Happy to give this a go but have been really worried that if I can't do a kit, what sort of mess will I make of an AG.

Kits get your procedures right 1st. Racking, hygeine, yeasts etc.
Sounds like you've got that sussed PP.
(Sorry if I sound like a broken record) but once you've got them right, it's time for AG. Maybe try a partial 1st but why bother getting it 1/2 right all the time?
An AG brew can be done with nothing more than 2 mayo buckets and some pots on the stove.
More equipment makes the job easier but don't let the lack of a wort chiller or grain mill stop you from entering flavour country.

You can try to make a woman out of rubber, but in the end of the day, you'll always have a blow-up doll, not the real thing, and no matter how much lippy you apply, it's always going to pale in comparison to the real thing. No matter what brand it is.

Beer is made from malted grains and hops. If you can get back to basics you'll get closer to the real thing, and isn't that why we started brewing in the first place? So we can drink real beer, not an approximation of beer.

 

[PistolPatch]

Everyone here has been simply bloody marvelous! I have had PMs offering to taste my brew or give advice over the phone from at least 4 states. Theres a few locals I never knew existed that have also come to the rescue. Hopefully, I will be at Rosss later in the week to see the AG process in action. Things are certainly looking up for me!

A lot of what has been suggested above I have not read before or had actually forgotten so thank you once again. I will post back here with how your suggestions have worked and also what those silly or brave enough to taste my beer think I am doing wrong. This is assuming they survive.

STUSTER: I received a PM on the boiling volumes as well so your suggestion is one I will try on my next brew for sure. Cheers.

AUSSIE CLARET: I was at Hope Island doing a job last week and often pass by there. Wrapped to here there is another AHBer so close. Would love to take up your kind offer and will PM you shortly.

HUGHMAN: Im following your procedures currently but its interesting about the Coopers/Cascade which I havent done until my last batch. This has been fermenting 7 days. I just had a taste which was a little frightening but hopefully it may come good!

TANGENT: You are a crack up! Rubber dolls! ROFL! Im hoping that my time at Rosss will be a huge education and Ill be able, after seeing the process work out how to do the same here in my apartment. Ross can do a brew in 5 hours and Im spending about 4 doing what Im doing anyway. Cant wait.

Cant thank you all enough for the above. My excitement is returning!

Cheers
PP

P.S. Some of you will remember I hijacked my thread here in a post above. Dane has now had a look at, A Brewers Manual (Contributions) and is looking at some software to enable such a project. In his post this morning, he has also asked for your thoughts or ideas so if you have any, please post them here

I'm off now Tangent to put some more lippy on my doll!

 

[PistolPatch]

Something I should have mentioned before...

My wort tastes very astringent/bitter from start to finish. That is, even before I add the yeast, 'my wort tastes like crap', as Lucas would say!

Lucas brought this to my attention in a thread with above titlethread with the above title. For those having similiar problems, watching the progress of his thread may narrow down all the above excellent ideas.

I have always assumed the initial wort tastes like crap as I have never known different! The hop level I use, if any, seems to make no difference to the bite experienced in the early wort.

Thanks Lucas. :beer:

 

[vlbaby]

You can try to make a woman out of rubber, but in the end of the day, you'll always have a blow-up doll, not the real thing, and no matter how much lippy you apply, it's always going to pale in comparison to the real thing. No matter what brand it is.

[post="112903"][/post]​

you seem to know a fair bit about this sort of stuff tangent...

I wont tell anyone ok. your secrets safe with me mate.

vlbaby.

 

[pint of lager]

That may be astringency you are tasting. Usual culprit in kit and kilo is from incorrectly treating your specialty grain by either boiling the grain, squeezing it or over rinsing. Excess hopping is another. Using iodine incorrectly can give an arrrgggghh factor too.

There are a lot of other places that the arrgggghhh factor in kit and kilo can come from, but I think you have them covered.

 

[agro]

I just had a tought...

You previously mentioned using filtered water. Is it a reverse osmosis filter ?

Agro

 

[PistolPatch]

POL: I'm not as yet using specialty grains but will keep your advice foremost as some have just arrived!

AGRO: I have no idea what the tech term for my filter is! It is attached to my kitchen tap and looks similiar to the under-sink one in the pic earlier in this thread. I have only one canister though, not 3. Hope this is enough info. Thanks Agro.

 

[agro]

I honestly don't know - I don't use filtered water (yet).

I do know that a reverse osmosis filter will strip all of the minerals out of the water. If you don't replace the minerals you will end up with an off flavoured beer which could be an issue.

I'm guessing you probably have a canister filter, in which case this isn't the problem.

Grasping at straws here.

Agro.

 

[peas_and_corn]

Hmm... interesting stuff

I think that maybe the best way to find out what's happening is to get someone who has some experience to come over and see what your procedures are. While writing everything answers a lot of questions, by the nature of brewing, there are a lot of things that can easily overlooked without being aware of it- going to Ken's AG day helped me see problems with my own process.

Also, I would have to go 'against the grain', so to speak, against the people who are pushing PP to go AG. I started with kits and am working my way to more advanced procedures. So, once I got my basics right (sanitation, ferment temps etc) I added racking, boiling, rehydrating, partials, etc etc. Maybe perfecting what he already knows takes a little more importance than using new procedures (and correct me if you disagree, PP).

 

[PistolPatch]

Thanks Agro and Peas. Also for those offering to taste my beer etc or have a chat, I've been that busy the last few days trying to get work done so as to make it to Ross's Friday, that I have not yet posted the bottles etc. Will do the above on the weekend.

Re the AG. All sides of brewing interest me greatly so I don't really have any strong opinions on brewing methods apart from hoping that I can learn to do them all to an acceptable level.

AG: My goal is to be able to do AG in my one bedroom apartment so I can monitor the beer closely, take my time and play around with all the possibilities that this method allows.

Kit and Extracts: I'd like to move doing kits/extracts to my mate's place so there's always a bit of swill for we tradies when we drop in there. Hopefully, over time, or even sooner by using all of your suggestions above, I'll end up making a great extract beer. I certainly enjoy an easy-drinking beer. The goal of this beer will be doing it with minimum equipment and time (no boil or small boil etc.) which is unfair to this method but through circumstances it is what I need to achieve.

I'm really hoping that it is the age of the kits that is the major problem. It has been suggested that I use plain extract in dry form which is another thing I'd like to do. Also must read that thread on Age of Ingredients.

I now can't get to Ross's till Monday. I'll do a brew Sunday and take some unfermented wort plus a few bottles of several of my prior brews for Ross to taste first thing Monday! If there are no posts from Ross for a few days early next week you'll know what happened! If there's no posts from me, you'll know that Ross has actually physically attacked me!

He'll be the lucky first to taste my fale (failed ale!) so I'll post back here Monday evening with his thoughts on where I'm going wrong.

This has been another brief post by PP