Ways To Increase Malt Aromas/flavour

[AndrewQLD]

Just glanced through this thread as I am just about to race out the door on Holidays CB, A good way to increase the malt perspective of a beer is to reduce your mash efficiency. I don't know what your EFF is but if it's say 80% try getting it back down to 70% and you will notice an increase in the true maltyness of the beer.

Cheers
got to flyy

Andrew

 

[clean brewer]

Although it might be difficult so long after if you want to bring your stout judging notes to the swap I can try and remember a bit more about what prompted my comments on the stout.
I know you\'ve quoted them above but I\'d like to see the whole thing...

As a general comment we found most of the entries lacking in roast character.

Edit: As a note and as a brewer who tends to stray a lot away from exact styles I would paraphrase comments above that a not so to style beer doesn\'t mean it is a bad beer. As a judge you try to comment not only on whether it meets the style but also provide feedback on the beer itself. We might not always manage but we try

Thanks Ben, Ill bring them to the Swap, Im only a New Brewer and have not really brewed the same beer or style twice really, Im loving my A.I.P.A's and that was my best scoring one... I would still really like to concentrate on a couple styles and brew them according to there parameters and still participate in the Comp. Next year I will have had another 9 months experience so I will focus on some styles properly.....
I was quite happy with the results other than the 1 beer I didnt like....

Just glanced through this thread as I am just about to race out the door on Holidays CB, A good way to increase the malt perspective of a beer is to reduce your mash efficiency. I don't know what your EFF is but if it's say 80% try getting it back down to 70% and you will notice an increase in the true maltyness of the beer.

Cheers
got to flyy

Andrew

Thanks Andrew, maybe Im trying to get too much out of my Grain?? My efficiency's have been quite high really....

:icon_cheers: CB

 

[Bribie G]

Another tweak is to use a proportion of a more aromatic malt such as Munich and even a touch of Melanoidin. I entered a 'Superlandlord' which is basically a TTL attempt with an extra 500g of Munich 2 and 50g of Melanoidin, in the State Comp and it was awarded a silver. I got the tasting notes back last night at the BABBs meeting and the 2 judges comments were:

"good malt aroma with slight caramel"
and
"caramel malt aroma"

I had also reduced 2L of runnings down to 300ml so there was a bit of melanoidins and caramel coming from that as well no doubt. Might be worth a try and would certainly give more 'complexity'. I reckon Munich would go brilliantly in a stout.

I'm bringing a keg of SuperLandlord to the case swap for tasties.
This one's got the 500 Munich but no Mello and no wort caramelisation, so may give you a pointer. Actually looking at the recipe just now I think I'd better drop the Super title and just call it Landlord++ or something
:icon_cheers:

Edit: I also put in an Aussie Old, and got 'low to Sweet malt aroma' to style. In the Aussies the malt is only supposed to be in the aftertaste to balance the hop bitterness, so in your case (and mine) little to no malt aroma required, when judging as a Tooheys old style you really need the roasty toasty up front. I had a bottle of T.O. a couple of days ago, BWS here are now selling tallies of it, and the first thing that hits you is the choc and roast, but no base malt. So I wouldn't be putting aromatic malts in an Old (Dark).

 

[clean brewer]

Another tweak is to use a proportion of a more aromatic malt such as Munich and even a touch of Melanoidin. I entered a 'Superlandlord' which is basically a TTL attempt with an extra 500g of Munich 2 and 50g of Melanoidin, in the State Comp and it was awarded a silver. I got the tasting notes back last night at the BABBs meeting and the 2 judges comments were:

"good malt aroma with slight caramel"
and
"caramel malt aroma"

I had also reduced 2L of runnings down to 300ml so there was a bit of melanoidins and caramel coming from that as well no doubt. Might be worth a try and would certainly give more 'complexity'. I reckon Munich would go brilliantly in a stout.

I'm bringing a keg of SuperLandlord to the case swap for tasties.
This one's got the 500 Munich but no Mello and no wort caramelisation, so may give you a pointer. Actually looking at the recipe just now I think I'd better drop the Super title and just call it Landlord++ or something
:icon_cheers:

Edit: I also put in an Aussie Old, and got 'low to Sweet malt aroma' to style. In the Aussies the malt is only supposed to be in the aftertaste to balance the hop bitterness, so in your case (and mine) little to no malt aroma required, when judging as a Tooheys old style you really need the roasty toasty up front. I had a bottle of T.O. a couple of days ago, BWS here are now selling tallies of it, and the first thing that hits you is the choc and roast, but no base malt. So I wouldn't be putting aromatic malts in an Old (Dark).

Ive got plenty of Munich and Vienna, Ill start incorporating some in my brews, maybe the base malts dont cut it for certain styles...

Cant wait to try it Bribie... :icon_drool2: And get some pointers......

:icon_cheers: CB

 

[mje1980]

I have found since using caramunich 1,2,3 in my beers instead of crystal, the malt aroma is more intense. Same with carared.

Cheers, good luck. SOme great ips in this thread, im gunna try a few of them myself.

 

[Nick JD]

I've found the best way to increase malt flavour and aroma is to go easy on the hops.

Leave out late hop additions and KABOOM, malty as.

Hops trumps malt.

EDIT: I think a lot of brewers have a "more is better" mentality. To me, that's like making yourself a coffee and then adding four types of syrup and three types of sprinkly stuff on top. You can't taste the coffee anymore - and it was probably really nice tasting coffee before you put all that crap on top. A nice base malt makes a nice beer if you don't drown it in eight different weird hop additions and mash on the high end of the scale. I sometimes look at the ingredients list in the recipes forum and am astounded. How many commercial breweries use that many ingredients? I think some of my favourite beers are very close to being SMASHes. People buy wonderful yeasts and crush their flavour profiles in hops.

Rant over.

 

[Bribie G]

I'd forgotten about the Carared. Definitely ups the malt aroma. Take a pack of Medium crystal and a pack of Carared and sniff them. The crystal smells like something you would feed to your guinea pig, but the Carared is beautiful and malty.

 

[MarkBastard]

I made an IIPA with pale malt and 5% crystal.......... and over half a KG or hops in 20 liters. Comp results were........ too malty. Fermented from 1.090 to 1.008 with US-05 ??????????

:icon_drool2: :icon_drool2: :icon_drool2: :icon_drool2:

 

[clean brewer]

I'd forgotten about the Carared. Definitely ups the malt aroma. Take a pack of Medium crystal and a pack of Carared and sniff them. The crystal smells like something you would feed to your guinea pig, but the Carared is beautiful and malty.

Mate, Ive got all whats needed, 6kg Carared(beautiful, only have used it in 1 brew so far), Munich, Vienna so Ill be adding some of these goodies to the appropriate beers Ill make.....

:icon_cheers: CB

 

[bradsbrew]

CB I have used special B in the last 2 brews and get a bigger malt hit. Althoughc I have been using carared, aromatic and vienna with BB ale as the base and the first one was too sweet adjusted the mash and yeast with the second and got it well balanced. the special B may throw your colour out though.

Cheers Brad

 

[clean brewer]

CB I have used special B in the last 2 brews and get a bigger malt hit. Althoughc I have been using carared, aromatic and vienna with BB ale as the base and the first one was too sweet adjusted the mash and yeast with the second and got it well balanced. the special B may throw your colour out though.

Cheers Brad

Ill be giving a new brew a whirl tomoz, something simple..... Maybe its the Base Malt, probably should use something a bit fuller for beers that should be maltier/have depth.... :unsure:

Cheers Brad

CB

What about using some Acidulated Malt in my Brews??????? :huh: Reduction of wort-pH leads to:

• a better mash working
• intensified fermentation
• lighter Pilsner color
• improved flavor stability
• well-rounded beer flavor

 

[Tony]

I use Acidulated to 1% in pale beers using pilsner malt. WOrks a treat. I get a great malt character with just pils.

It really depends on your water chemistry...... if your pH is high it would be well worth using.

You usually dont need it in darker beers as the dark grain pulls the pH down by itsself.

Chalk is often added to stout because it raises the pH to counter all the roast grain pulling it down too low.

cheers

 

[katzke]

I use Acidulated to 1% in pale beers using pilsner malt. WOrks a treat. I get a great malt character with just pils.

It really depends on your water chemistry...... if your pH is high it would be well worth using.

You usually dont need it in darker beers as the dark grain pulls the pH down by itsself.

Chalk is often added to stout because it raises the pH to counter all the roast grain pulling it down too low.

cheers

Boy it is great to see people doing things with their brewing water. It is not as difficult as some of the experts say it is. Just need to get some basic info so we know how much to play with for additions and the test is in the taste.

 

[clean brewer]

I use Acidulated to 1% in pale beers using pilsner malt. WOrks a treat. I get a great malt character with just pils.

It really depends on your water chemistry...... if your pH is high it would be well worth using.

You usually dont need it in darker beers as the dark grain pulls the pH down by itsself.

Chalk is often added to stout because it raises the pH to counter all the roast grain pulling it down too low.

cheers

Boy it is great to see people doing things with their brewing water. It is not as difficult as some of the experts say it is. Just need to get some basic info so we know how much to play with for additions and the test is in the taste.

This is a copy of our Water Report for our area View attachment Copy_of_Water_Quality_request_from_Jody_Fischer___Eli_Waters_26.11.08.xls

I also use 5.4.... Does this work? Our water has PH 7.5

Can anyone suggest what I may need to use in some styles of beers based on the Report.....

Cheers again guys
:icon_cheers: CB

 

[Julez]

Out of interest, I'd like to know how independently the judges' comments are made in the xABC comps. Do the judges discuss the beer before then writing their comments? I didn't enter this year, but last year I was quite surprised by how similar the judges comments were. Part of that I'm sure was due to their good judgement but I also got the distinct impression that some of the comments were a bit "too close for comfort". Would be interested to know how that's done if anyone can shed some light?

Great topic though, I've been asking the same question lately about how to up the malt complexity and aroma.

Cheers :icon_cheers:

 

[bconnery]

Out of interest, I'd like to know how independently the judges' comments are made in the xABC comps. Do the judges discuss the beer before then writing their comments? I didn't enter this year, but last year I was quite surprised by how similar the judges comments were. Part of that I'm sure was due to their good judgement but I also got the distinct impression that some of the comments were a bit "too close for comfort". Would be interested to know how that's done if anyone can shed some light?

Great topic though, I've been asking the same question lately about how to up the malt complexity and aroma.

Cheers :icon_cheers:

The BJCP guidelines to which these comps are run discourage discussion between judges until the end when comparing score to ensure you are within the defined allowed spread (which is up to a maximum if 7 points but is often 3 or 5).
While I can't speak for individual judges the way I like to judge is to go with my impressions of the beer and only seek the opinion of
the judge(s) when looking to clarify a point, generally when an off flavour is involved, and then at the end with a quick discussion of what we each felt about the beer. I admit that last part is mainly for my benefit to basically pick the brains of the other judges and help reinforce my knowledge on the process.

This is the way it has been at the comps I have been involved in, which admitedly isn't heaps yet.

Realistically if all your judges are of a similar level thats exactly what you should get. The same two people judging a beer to style should notice similar things. Some judges are better at detecting certain flavours than others but overall you will find that feedback will be very similar but hopefully always useful...

 

[Julez]

The BJCP guidelines to which these comps are run discourage discussion between judges until the end when comparing score to ensure you are within the defined allowed spread (which is up to a maximum if 7 points but is often 3 or 5).
While I can't speak for individual judges the way I like to judge is to go with my impressions of the beer and only seek the opinion of
the judge(s) when looking to clarify a point, generally when an off flavour is involved, and then at the end with a quick discussion of what we each felt about the beer. I admit that last part is mainly for my benefit to basically pick the brains of the other judges and help reinforce my knowledge on the process.

This is the way it has been at the comps I have been involved in, which admitedly isn't heaps yet.

Realistically if all your judges are of a similar level thats exactly what you should get. The same two people judging a beer to style should notice similar things. Some judges are better at detecting certain flavours than others but overall you will find that feedback will be very similar but hopefully always useful...

That's good to know! I have only been in the one comp to date and I definitely found all the judges' comments constructive and useful. Do the same rules of thumb apply to both novice and non-BJCP judges? I had two beers entered in the QABC last year, and got two sheets back for each but none of the judges were certified or any of the higher ranked designations.

Either way, I think it's still an excellent process and well worth the effort.

Cheers

 

[bconnery]

That's good to know! I have only been in the one comp to date and I definitely found all the judges' comments constructive and useful. Do the same rules of thumb apply to both novice and non-BJCP judges? I had two beers entered in the QABC last year, and got two sheets back for each but none of the judges were certified or any of the higher ranked designations.

Either way, I think it's still an excellent process and well worth the effort.

Cheers

The judges in a comp should be judging in a manner that conforms to the comp rules, regardless of their qualifications or experience.
As the QABC is run under the BJCP guidelines it should follow those. These allow for non BJCP judges but they still have to follow the rules...

 

[bum]

I sometimes look at the ingredients list in the recipes forum and am astounded. How many commercial breweries use that many ingredients?

How many of us brew because we are disenchanted with the offerings of commercial breweries?

How about you just worry about your own recipes and let others make beers they want?

 

[Julez]

How many of us brew because we are disenchanted with the offerings of commercial breweries?

How about you just worry about your own recipes and let others make beers they want?

I think you missed his point mate. The topic is "ways to increase malt aromas/flavour". Nick was just saying that sometimes the more ingredients you add, the less a single ingredient group (i.e. malt, in this case) can stand out. I don't think he meant to bag people that use a lot of different ingredients, necessarily.

Having said that, of course you can use a nice blend of malts and hops, but still emphasise maltiness or hoppiness depending on what you want to do. Horses for courses really