Ways To Increase Malt Aromas/flavour

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clean brewer

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Hello all,

Just received some feedback today on 4 of my Beers in the QABC, while I didnt particularly research the styles and brew specifically for the Comp, I would like a little advice on the Topic at Hand.... :)

Basically, in nearly all the Beers from 2 Scoresheets for each beer, it was noted that their was little or no Malt Aroma!!!! :unsure:

So, could this be from using maybe a Plain Base Malt that doesnt have enough goodness? Or do I need to add some more intense/flavoursome Malts/Spec Malts to my Brews? Or because they could be mashed a little low in temp? Or could the BU:GU be out of whack for the Style?

While I dont really want to be posting Recipes/Temps/Schedules etc, Im just hoping for some general advice in helping increase Malt Aroma etc.

Cheers

:icon_cheers: CB
 
I always got knocked for the oposite.............. too malty

I made an IIPA with pale malt and 5% crystal.......... and over half a KG or hops in 20 liters. Comp results were........ too malty. Fermented from 1.090 to 1.008 with US-05 ??????????

how do you win?

And dont think mashing warmer will increase malt flavour or aroma.......... it will just make the beer less fermentable..... thats all. i have made beers that fermented dry as dry mashed at 60 deg c but were malty to hold it up.

A few things i think help maltiness:

Freshly cracked malt in the mash. no more than over night! Im sure it goes stale once cracked faster than we want to know. Like a slice of bread left in the open air.
A cooler sparge. I dont know the science behind it but i get better results with a slow cool (72 deg) sparge.
CaCl (Calcium Cloride) in the mash. IT lowers the mash pH like CaSo4 (Gypsum) but will acentuate the malt instead of the Bitterness.
Something like carahell in a Belgian Trippel or a Weizen ..... or any pale beer, will increase the malt prifile.
and dont be afraid of the specialty malts.

Id like to see the recipes for the beers in question.

cheers
 
Did they mention BU or GU or hop intencity all can play a part,I am know judge at all far from it, but than can be so many things it can be did they specify.
 
Ok, Ill post this info:

Dry Stout: (not brewed specifically to style, Pillar of Stout in the Recipe DB)

AROMA: Light Malt - No Esters - Slight Chocolate
AROMA: Some Mild Malt Aromas - No Esters Roast or Chocolate
OVERALL IMPRESSION: Too highly carbonated and lacking Malt to bring off a good Stout. Could do with more Malt interplay from different grains. This would do better as a Robust Porter.
OVERALL IMPRESSION: Lacking in Roast and Malt, quite astringent in Finish

A.I.P.A:

AROMA: Reasonable Hop Aroma, citrus notes, light Malt but slightly lacking. Hop Aroma could be increased.
AROMA: Low Citrus Hop Aroma, mild sweet malt aroma.
OVERALL IMPRESSION: Not a bad example of style but seems to be a little aged or not handled with care. Could do better with an increase in Aroma and Fresh Malt character
OVERALL IMPRESSION: Reasonably balanced. Malt level balances Hop flavour but could be increased. Hop and Malt character could be increased.

Australian Dark/Old Ale: (based on Hunter Old in DB)

AROMA: Hop Aroma Perfumy - out of style guidelines. Estery
AROMA: No significant Malt Aroma, Very slight Bready character from malt and some fruity ferment by products detected.
OVERALL IMPRESSION: This is quite a Big beer for the Aussie Dark Category. Judging as Tooheys Old. Otherwise a good beer.
OVERALL IMPRESSION: Very nice Beer. I believe a great example of an Old Ale. Id be happy drinking this, unfortunately OLD ALES have been thrown in a Aussie Dark Ale guidelines. So this this Beer is really being judged out of class.

A.P.A: (i didnt really enjoy this beer either)

AROMA: Sherbert, white wine aroma. More solventy as it warms up. A little Belgianny.
AROMA: I detect a white wine character, green apple aroma, little sweet malt aroma.
OVERALL IMPRESSION: Alot of yeast by products in the Beer, esters, phenolic, alcohol. Control the ferment temp and the hops Malt will come through.
OVERALL IMPRESSION: Fruit derived flavours, should be from hops, where this example seems to come from the yeast and fermentation. Not really to Style, but not a bad beer all the same.

As I said, I hadnt brewed any of these specifically to style or for the Comp, but it was great to get some feedback..... A couple other comments were in relation to Ferment temp, I ferment at 17-18 so not sure there....

Also would yeast by-products come from maybe pitching onto a yeast cake? Maybe the APA is too light to be re-pitching and flavours easily detected...

:icon_cheers: CB

Nothing about BU:GU which I reckon could be quite important, also it would help if the whole forms were filled out properly, also I can only tell that 1/2 the judges stated they were Non-BJCP.....
 
Hello all,

Just received some feedback today on 4 of my Beers in the QABC, while I didnt particularly research the styles and brew specifically for the Comp, I would like a little advice on the Topic at Hand.... :)

Basically, in nearly all the Beers from 2 Scoresheets for each beer, it was noted that their was little or no Malt Aroma!!!! :unsure:

So, could this be from using maybe a Plain Base Malt that doesnt have enough goodness? Or do I need to add some more intense/flavoursome Malts/Spec Malts to my Brews? Or because they could be mashed a little low in temp? Or could the BU:GU be out of whack for the Style?

While I dont really want to be posting Recipes/Temps/Schedules etc, Im just hoping for some general advice in helping increase Malt Aroma etc.

Cheers

:icon_cheers: CB

What yeast do you use?
 
Reading those judging notes, the only beer that seems to have a specific issue with maltiness is the stout. This is from looking at the overall impression notes rather than the aroma.

Overall, I wouldn't worry about increasing the maltiness in your beers based on those judging sheets.
 
Mmmmmmmmmmmmmm

Dry Stout: Hi Carb can scrub most flavours and aroma fom the beer. and judges wont sit around waiting for it to de-gas to enjoy it.

An AIPA should be hop driven. saying it needs malt aroma is a bit rough IMO. It should be glowing green with american hop aroma.

The old ale sounds like a combination of Recipe issues (to style) and fermentation pronlems perhaps.

APA sounds like it was infected to me.

Mate i wouldnt stress too much about lack of malt. Sounds like you have other issues to address.

And dont draw too many conclusions from comp results. you have to remember they are judged agains specific guidelines and if it doesnt fit these guidelines, as you said they wouldnt....... the judges will pick the differences as faults!

I recon you brewed some good beers but they didnt fit the guidelines for a competition............. thas all.

I brew bugger all to style for competition these days. I brew for myself, family and friends and what i find people..... and myself, like to drink. Who cares if the roast malt character isnt to to the BJCP guidelines

cheers
 
Yeast choice plays a key roll in malt aromatics. Some strains produce stronger malt aromas, where others are very clean and leave not much aroma at all.

Complexity of your grain bill can develop your malt aroma and personally I've found Aust malts lacking in ability to produce a substancial aroma.

Aging a bottled conditioned beer can also develop a malt aroma over time but I've only experianced this with beers which are fairly malty to start with (Bock, Ock, Mai).

Ever heard of dry graining :ph34r:
 
You know there's an Aromatic malt...?
EBC 33 - 42 (mash required): Dingemans Aromatic is a mildly kilned malt that will add a strong malt aroma and deep colour when used as a specialty malt. This malt can make up to 100% of the grain bill, but it is fairly low in surplus diastatic enzymes. A hybrid Munich malt. At a rate as low as 10% it will lend a distinct, almost exaggerated malt aroma and flavour.
Ive got some now, Ill have add a little to some beers to try out....



What yeast do you use?
Ill have to double check on the missus computer, I could probably use some yeasts relevant to the Beers/Aromas/whatever, but they were just US-05, Nottingham(ah, thats one problem, it destroys everything in its path <_< )


Reading those judging notes, the only beer that seems to have a specific issue with maltiness is the stout. This is from looking at the overall impression notes rather than the aroma.

Overall, I wouldn't worry about increasing the maltiness in your beers based on those judging sheets.
Cheers Kai, you brew for a job dont you?


Mmmmmmmmmmmmmm

Dry Stout: Hi Carb can scrub most flavours and aroma fom the beer. and judges wont sit around waiting for it to de-gas to enjoy it.

An AIPA should be hop driven. saying it needs malt aroma is a bit rough IMO. It should be glowing green with american hop aroma.

The old ale sounds like a combination of Recipe issues (to style) and fermentation pronlems perhaps.

APA sounds like it was infected to me.

Mate i wouldnt stress too much about lack of malt. Sounds like you have other issues to address.

And dont draw too many conclusions from comp results. you have to remember they are judged agains specific guidelines and if it doesnt fit these guidelines, as you said they wouldnt....... the judges will pick the differences as faults!

I recon you brewed some good beers but they didnt fit the guidelines for a competition............. thas all.

I brew bugger all to style for competition these days. I brew for myself, family and friends and what i find people..... and myself, like to drink. Who cares if the roast malt character isnt to to the BJCP guidelines

cheers

Cheers aswell Tony, I didnt think the Stout was overcarbed personally but who knows... I think the APA did have some issues hey, wasnt bad, but I had some problems putting it down my throat, ive got one im drinking now from the same batch and its great....

I guess thats why people maybe dont enter comps to much as they may take it all to hard? As said, I didnt brew to style specifically, just entered in categories I thought appropriate to get some feedback.... I enjoy most of my beers and others have enjoyed some aswell, unfortunately no-one gets to drink them other than me so its hard to get feedback.... :( Maybe I need a Guinea Pig to send some bottles to try for Judging.....

Cheers again for comments hey, this is why I love this Forum, helpful info like this and some frivolities at times that make me laugh alot....

CB
 
A.P.A: (i didnt really enjoy this beer either)

AROMA: Sherbert, white wine aroma. More solventy as it warms up. A little Belgianny.
AROMA: I detect a white wine character, green apple aroma, little sweet malt aroma.
OVERALL IMPRESSION: Alot of yeast by products in the Beer, esters, phenolic, alcohol. Control the ferment temp and the hops Malt will come through.
OVERALL IMPRESSION: Fruit derived flavours, should be from hops, where this example seems to come from the yeast and fermentation. Not really to Style, but not a bad beer all the same.

Hi Clean Brewer,

The second judge for the APA was me and from memory this beer possibly had an acetaldehyde issue, hence the green apple comment. Body of the beer is fairly importaint in carying off a strong aroma as thiner beers lack depth of aroma IMO.

Hope you found the feedback useful from your score sheets.

Cheers

TS :icon_cheers:
 
CleanBrewer,

be carefull with trying to add "maltiness" to your beer as it can be misconstrued as "worty"

Try to hit your mash temps on target and all should be fine.

cheers

Darren
 
Hi Clean Brewer,

The second judge for the APA was me and from memory this beer possibly had an acetaldehyde issue, hence the green apple comment. Body of the beer is fairly importaint in carying off a strong aroma as thiner beers lack depth of aroma IMO.

Hope you found the feedback useful from your score sheets.

Cheers

TS :icon_cheers:
This beer was very young aswell, I pushed it out of the Fermenter and into the bottle and onto the Courier hoping it had enough time(2 weeks) to Carb up.... Feedback was good, very consistent, both judges comments were similar which is good....


CleanBrewer,

be carefull with trying to add "maltiness" to your beer as it can be misconstrued as "worty"

Try to hit your mash temps on target and all should be fine.

cheers

Darren
Cheers Darren, Ill still enter next year but work on my Recipes/Teqniques/Yeast/Ingredients a bit more, Im still a AG learning Virgin really... :ph34r: Worty? As in sweet/malty?

CB
 
Yeast choice plays a key roll in malt aromatics. Some strains produce stronger malt aromas, where others are very clean and leave not much aroma at all.


Good advice

Nottingham(ah, thats one problem, it destroys everything in its path

Not true, depends on the beer, drop in some time and I'll feed you some beers made using Notto and prove it :)

Cheers,

Screwy
 
Good advice



Not true, depends on the beer, drop in some time and I'll feed you some beers made using Notto and prove it :)

Cheers,

Screwy

The yeast is still something im yet to get right into, slowly getting there.....

Will do Mike, just some comments ive heard and put 2 and 2 together... My wrong!! I guess it all comes down to everything balancing everything out hey??? Choice of every Ingredient....

CB
 
The yeast is still something im yet to get right into, slowly getting there.....

Will do Mike, just some comments ive heard and put 2 and 2 together... My wrong!! I guess it all comes down to everything balancing everything out hey??? Choice of every Ingredient....

CB

How do you control your fermet temp CB?
 
Sounds like a combination of judges opinions and a new brewer. My wife entered a beer in the IPA category and won 3rd place. A BJCP judge at the event sampled it after the judging, and before the results were anounced, and did not have much good to say about it as an IPA. That same judge cleaned up in several categories so he does know his beers and how to brew.

As to how to fix any of the issues. Follow the advice you have gotten on mash temps, ferment temps, and water additions. My beers have improved by paying attention to those items. Are you sure your mash thermometer is correct? Other things like fresh malt are important. If you are buying pre-crushed malt, talk to the shop and find out when they mill the grain. I find I can make a nice beer with malt that is stored cold for a week or 2. I think the oldest was 3 or 4 weeks but it was kept cold or frozen (can not remember). Fresh malt is the best but no need to toss malt that has set for a bit. Oh and a lot of beer is brewed and enjoyed with just plain old 2 row base malt. You may try a different brand. I have read a few posts of people liking one brand over a second. Sorry I do not pay much attention to them as I am in the USA and get different malts.

Last thing is what did you think of the beer? Make a change and see if you like it. I have sampled some gold medal beers I do not like as much as the losers.
 
Are you sure your mash thermometer is correct?
Pretty sure, Ill double check this weekend.... :unsure:
Other things like fresh malt are important.
Malt is not old and it is Un-cracked until the night before or even on the day... :)
Last thing is what did you think of the beer? Make a change and see if you like it. I have sampled some gold medal beers I do not like as much as the losers.
I liked the Beers other than the APA which I found had some issues after I had posted them out, it went in the bottle quick and never had a chance to try it.... As for the others, Im no expert on Brewing them but plan to work on them.... ;) Thats what its all about, Ill have to take some beers to the Swap for testing...

Ill look into some of the advice here, thanks for your helpful comments...

Anyone else feel free to chime in with your thoughts...

:icon_cheers: CB
 
Pretty sure, Ill double check this weekend.... :unsure:

Malt is not old and it is Un-cracked until the night before or even on the day...

I liked the Beers other than the APA which I found had some issues after I had posted them out, it went in the bottle quick and never had a chance to try it.... As for the others, Im no expert on Brewing them but plan to work on them.... Thats what its all about, Ill have to take some beers to the Swap for testing...

Ill look into some of the advice here, thanks for your helpful comments...

Anyone else feel free to chime in with your thoughts...
Although it might be difficult so long after if you want to bring your stout judging notes to the swap I can try and remember a bit more about what prompted my comments on the stout.
I know you\'ve quoted them above but I\'d like to see the whole thing...

As a general comment we found most of the entries lacking in roast character.

Edit: As a note and as a brewer who tends to stray a lot away from exact styles I would paraphrase comments above that a not so to style beer doesn\'t mean it is a bad beer. As a judge you try to comment not only on whether it meets the style but also provide feedback on the beer itself. We might not always manage but we try :)
 
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