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dicko

Boston Bay Brewery
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Hi,

This topic may carry on from the Mash PH topic of recent times.
I have gone to Promash ( dont hold that against me Chiller :lol: ) water profile calculator and I tried to make Pilsen water from distilled water with the appropriate additions.
I find that however I add or subtract varios compounds I either go over the spec in some areas and under in others.
EG; I cant get enough magnesium without being too high in sulphates, and
I cant get enough calcium without going over the carbonate level.

Does anybody have any solutions to this?
Do these figures have to be "spot on"?
How do you weigh such small amounts of chemical compound?

BTW I am not making a Pilsen at this stage as this is only an experiment!

Cheers
 

berto

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Not sure if this will work or not. But from back in the good old days of high school chemistry. Why dont you add magnesium hydroxide. This is a base and as such there is no sulfates being added here. Then add a little acid to neutralise the base you have added and voila. You could also you use chlorides for these as well, but im not sure if that would have an adverse effect on your chloride levels in the water. You may have a little more of a buffer there to play with.
Hope this could be of some help.

Cheers, Rob
 

dicko

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Thanks berto,
The formula spread sheet in promash only allows for certain additions but the thought of adding something else had crossed my mind.
I am sure the more experienced "gurus" on here will have an explanation.
Cheers
 

chiller

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Hi Dicko,

This info is based on good rainwater or distilled water.

Water for one of those wimpy girlie Pilsners [I'm brewing one today] is very soft. :)

My method is as follows.

Don't use gypsum as this will give sulphates and that will be too harsh in a Pils

Aim for about 30 part/million of Calcium derived from Calcium Chloride.
This is higher than Pilsen water but you aren't using a decoction mash so the small extra Calcium and Chloride level won't be a problem.

That is the only salt addition to add as the other minute amounts needed for a Pils will come from the grain.

I also reduce my entire water to a pH of 5.7 as this will help the conversion of the grain with a low Calcium level.

You could use about 100 - 200 gms of acidulated malt in the mash. This will help the mash pH and aid a lacy head on the beer.

Regards

Steve.
 

dicko

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Hi Chiller,
So you are saying that magnesium is not important ????
I thought it helped the yeast!!
But, I could be wrong.
Cheers
 

chiller

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It [magnesium] is important but for the beer you are making the grain holds enough. The grain has most of the salts needed for yeast health. Aerate the wort very well and it will be fine.

I have made [excellent :) ] girlie beers with rainwater -- pH adjustment and no additional salts and extending the mash to 90 minutes.

You will chase your tail all day and never get the exact water profile. You can get close and that is sufficient. Very few people can "honestly" pick a water profile in the finished beer.

Don't add strong alkali such as the hydroxides for precise salt control as they will totally ruin your water for brewing. A small amount goes a looooooooooooooooooooooooong way. Lime is used to remove carbonates from water but requires very accurate controls.

Soft with a small Calcium Chloride addition and a pH adjustment will get you very close. It is then up to you. :)


Steve
 

sosman

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How do you weigh such small amounts of chemical compound?
I use the 200g by 0.1g Jaycar scale. A group of us got together and one of us had a trade account with them so the cost wasn't prohibitive.
 

dicko

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Hi Sosman,

What did the scales cost?

Cheers
 

Gulf Brewery

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dicko

You will never get a perfect match with the profile water. Near enough is good enough. Even the water sources for a given area, like Burton, vary significantly from the so called "ideal" specs for the area.

As chiller sort of said, sulphates accentuate the hop bitterness and in a pilsner you are looking for smooth bitterness, so adjust your water in a way that gives you the calcium without the sulphates.

Chiller is only shitty about pilsners because last night he was shamed into brewing one for his good lady.

Cheers
Pedro
 

Pumpy

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Hey Pedro I downloaded the Promash trial version ,can you change the EBC of the grain on the trial ?

Pumpy
 

chiller

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I'm in the beginings of brewing one of those girlie beers now.

I've added a few extra mash steps so it isn't a totally bland [3.7 SRM] brewday.

As much as it pains me .... and it does ..... if any all grain brewers want a recipe that puts you right on the money for a Kwak then Pedro has a beauty.

We helped increase the national income for Belgium last night ....

Hoegarden to start
Leffe Blond
Chimay White
Belle Vue Kreik
and Kwak

We also had a fellow brewers Leffe blond clone that apart from a small amount of diacetyl was very close to the real thing. So close we needed another bottle of the real thing to be sure.

We finished the night with Pedro's trippel and it was excellent.

Steve
 

Gulf Brewery

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Pumpy said:
the Promash trial version ,can you change the EBC of the grain on the trial ?
Pumpy

If you select grain at the bottom of the main screen and edit the malts you want, you should be able to save the malt database when you finish. (I only ever had the demo version for a couple of days until I decided Iliked the program and bought it).

There is also a malt database available that has all of the australian malts in it.,

Pedro
 

Jazman

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I have brewed A Czech Pills with rainwater and no salt additions and its a great beer i love the saaz hop in this with an ibu of 43
 

dicko

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Hi Pedro,
I spent a bit of time with Chiller on the phone and now I realise that you dont have to be that accurate with the water.

You will never get a perfect match with the profile water. Near enough is good enough.
But i dont understand that you can spend a night sipping the best of Belgian Beers with a guy who has so many problems using a PROMASH program. :lol:

(I only ever had the demo version for a couple of days until I decided Iliked the program and bought it).
Chiller is only shitty about pilsners because last night he was shamed into brewing one for his good lady.
Pedro, it should turn out OK because I helped him with my PROMASH program to work the recipe :lol:

Cheers
 

dicko

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Re the above post

Belgian should read Belgium.
I would imagine that Belgian might be what a Belgium man does when he drinks a belgium beer very quickly. :eek:

:lol:

Cheers
 

dicko

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Hi Jazman,

Yes I agree, however the only Czech pils I have done was a partial and I used rain water without additions and it was excellent.

Cheers
 

chiller

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I'm so fortunate to have such caring brew friends. :D

I don't know how I'd be able to brew anything at all without the guiding hand extended even when it is attached to Promash. :)

Well Dicko, I'm glad you have a better handle on water for brewing. It isn't all that difficult and is an extra dimension to add to your brewday enjoyment.

Regards

Steve.
 

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