Grainer, on 14 Sept 2016 - 8:19 PM, said:
[SIZE=14.6667px]M4B. Historical Mead[/SIZE]
A Historical Mead is a historical or indigenous mead that doesn’t fit into another subcategory (e.g., Ethiopian tej, Polish meads). The BJCP welcomes submissions of writeups of historical or indigenous styles that fit into this category.
Overall Impression: This mead should exhibit the character of all of the ingredients in varying degrees, and should show a good blending or balance between the various flavor elements.Whatever ingredients are included, the result should be identifiable as a honey-based fermented beverage.
Bouchet does not Qualify for Historical mead given this statement. Bouchet does not have an identifiable honey base or other ingredients that would require it to be balanced. It really doesnt naturally fit anywhere under the mead judging guidelines but clearly fits under sweet mead in the Beer BJCP.
The accusation was that I tried to cheat by entering 2 x other meads.. one in an other category being a JAO and a bochet which is just honey and water and would qualify as a sweet mead given the BJCP guidelines.
Grainer addresses his initial concerns, asking for clarification about style guidelines.
Grainer, on 14 Sept 2016 - 8:28 PM, said:
QUOTE : "I'm guessing you couldn't enter two "others" (thus breaking the rules) & decided to take a punt. Nice try - fail...the judges on the day got the better of you."
So the clear accusation that was made is that I was trying to cheat the system.. hence why I am pissed off at Martin for being an absolute tool in the accusation. It is totally uncalled for.
manticle tried to search 2015.. but didn't get anywhere any assistance would be good for what you are trying to point me to.
Grainer accuses MartinOC of being a 'tool' because he accused Grainer of cheating. I think that's more than fair. He was a MASSIVE tool.
manticle, on 14 Sept 2016 - 8:55 PM, said:
The one I'm downloading says 'ethiopian tej, bouchet, polish mead'.
MartinOC, on 14 Sept 2016 - 8:55 PM, said:
Slap!
Again, MartinOC attempts to belittle Grainer.
Grainer, on 15 Sept 2016 - 12:37 PM, said:
thank you for the clarification You must have had to search a long time! mine isn't a classical bochet but had that name..mistake on the naming on my behalf then when entering.. should have been "caramelised sweet mead"... it had no additives like a classical bochet.
Again, Grainer shows maturity by not responding.
MartinOC, on 20 Sept 2016 - 9:07 PM, said:
Just a few "small" points for everyone to consider...(& one person in particular...):
1. I (MartinOC) am NOT the official voice of Vicbrew on this forum. I just happen to be more active here than others on the Committee. My opinions & comments are my own & I stand by them 100%. Got a problem? PM me & we can sort it out. Mostly, but not always, amicably....
2. If you have a query about where to place one of your entries in future, I'm more than happy to guide you (as has happened earlier in this thread).
3. Bleating because the Judges didn't think your creation wasn't as good as you thought it was is fruitless. If you put it into the wrong category or sub-style, suck it up, Princess... It's the rules of entry.
4. Personally contacting the BJCP to adjudicate on the matter is fruitless - they defer to the individual competition organiser, as has happened.
5. Contacting Vicbrew, requesting to chastise an individual member of the Committee over personal comments here & demanding a public apology will just make you even MORE of a laughing-stock than you are already. And you already ARE laughing-stock....within the Committee & here amongst the AHB community.
On a personal level, you can GET ****** if you expect an apology from me - privately or publicly.
You know who you are...
Edit: You dug the hole...now you have to lay in it...
Edit #2: Well! No surprises that you've blocked PM's from me - Don't want to hear the bad news, eh? Just bury your head in the sand & make-out you're God's-gift to the brewing community, eh?? If you won't hear it privately, then I guess I'll just have to do it publicly..
MartinOC gets up on his high horse again. He created this forum topic, and answers questions in this topic as if he speaks for VicBrew, but now attempts to distance himself from his role as Head Steward. In this forum, and in this topic especially, he is acting as Head Steward and his behaviour should be judged accordingly.
He again abuses Grainer, accusing him of bleating, calling him a Princess again, and a laughing-stock.
And for the finale, tells Grainer to "GET ******".
Grainer, on 21 Sept 2016 - 7:18 PM, said:
OK I will respond now… I have given this some thought and time now and of course it is all directed at me everyone knows that.
Yes, you are correct Barls and Yob, I did go about this the wrong way and I should have contacted the judges concerned to get their opinions in the background as per the form via email.. in hindsight that would have been a better approach. Unfortunately, I had posted what was on my mind without giving it too much thought of the ramification of what I was writing at the time, seems to be a common trait of mine but no offence was intended. At no stage did I intend on insulting the judges..that being the case I realise I may have done this and I am sorry to those judges.
I have done my own research into the mead in question through both Vicbrew and BJCP and yes it should have gone into “other meads” but at the time of entry, I thought it should be in “sweet meads” and hence entered it there. This is an honest mistake unlike what I have been accused of.
At no point was I suggesting my scores should be changed and am quite fine with the final scores.. I said was that I was surprised with one mead… and as stated, I should have sent a PM to the judges in question to get their feedback rather than the way I went about it. This is noted for the future and a harsh lesson learnt for me. I had several beers that did VERY badly and have never questioned these, all the comments were great and the feedback spot on.
Just to be clear, at no stage did I abuse anyone all the abuse has been directed to me to date, some called for other not.
I love home brewing and contributing to this forum and think it is a great way to connect. I am a very giving person of my time when it comes to brewing and I am a little bit of a perfectionist/scientist .. I love it.. I am passionate about a lot of things.. and this comes across in my personality.. I am a little full on at times and this is often mistaken for other things, I understand how this is perceived by others.. give it time and maybe you will understand who I really am if you wish.
This is where I will leave it. Hopefully I can apologise to those judges in person at some stage over a beer if they like.
cheers
Grainer
And yet again Grainer shows restraint.
So what was Grainer's mistake here? He certainly wasn't the only person to question the results:
GalBrew, on 13 Sept 2016 - 11:41 AM, said:
dannymars, on 13 Sept 2016 - 11:38 AM, said:
Reading the score sheet... It's definitely not my beer...
"No hops, no bitterness, watery, 0 carbonation... Almost porter in darkness." All impossible descriptors for the beer I submitted.
I counter-pressure filled (should hold carb)... plus, it was a 200+ IBU beer. I doubt any beer that bitter is going to change in the bottle to that degree.
Also, out of the 3 IIPA scoresheets, one of them is a sheet I wrote for a Robust Porter.
-------------------
That description is spot on for the beer we got back from the judges. Brown, tasteless, watery and flat. We were all confused behind the bar too if it makes you feel better.
After every competition questions are asked about the results. So did Grainer deserve this abuse? And even if he was in the wrong, is it appropriate for the Head Steward to abuse entrants like this? Is it even okay for people to abuse other Aussie Home Brewer forum members like this?
I say it's not okay, and it's left an awful taste in my mouth.
Grainer, you are the kind of passionate brewer that brings value to this forum, and the brewing community generally. You have shown impressive maturity in this situation, and I hope that other forum members can find the courage to support you.
MartinOC, your actions are deplorable. You have completely disgraced yourself, and VicBrew by association, and need to apologise, wholeheartedly, to Grainer immediately. I don't see how you can continue in any formal position at future competitions, but that is not my decision to make. I have stewarded and judged at VicBrew and have no intention of volunteering my time again, or even entering, as long as you are associated with the competition.
