VICBREW 2016

Australia & New Zealand Homebrewing Forum

Help Support Australia & New Zealand Homebrewing Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.
It takes a big man to apologise. It takes an even bigger one to apologise in front of an audience.

Well done, Grainer. Onwards and upwards!
 
Well done for the candid apology John, we all know you are a passionate man. Keep on brewing!
 
Are we all reading the same thread here? Grainer has CLEARLY been abused by Martin OC, the Head Steward of Vicbrew. This is deplorable behaviour for a competition official. In fact it's borderline inappropriate for anyone on this forum. Vile behaviour like this brings shame on the whole brewing community.

So let's break this down. What has Grainer done to deserve this abuse?


Grainer said:
Heads up.. my Baltic Porter feedback sheet belongs to someone else on compmaster ??? is it possible to fix this?

Surprised that my JAO got a second over my FAR superior Bouchet (Burnt Mead) that came last in the category (maybe the judges haven't had burnt mead before?) Oh well happy with a second for the JAO.. Might contact Michael Fairbrother (Moonlight Meadery) to check his opinion since there is not much knowledge locally.. Unless someone else here has extensive knowledge???.. we have to change that!
Okay, he does question the judges decision regarding his results, but acknowledges that this may have been due to an interpretation of the style guidelines.


MartinOC said:
Rule #5: Judging will be by blind tasting. Judges decision will be final.

Your opinion of your own creations is clearly not the same as that of the Judges. You can ask for the opinion of whoever you want, but it won't change anything.

FYI, the most experienced Judge on that category is a very experienced Mead Maker & BJCP-qualified with over 22 years of Judging experience & has an excellent palate. He told me that he was very impressed with the other judges he worked with & would happily judge with them again.

The category was Stewarded by another experienced Mead Maker (I allocated him to the job deliberately) & whilst you don't get his opinion in writing, I can assure you that he felt the same way as the Judges on your entry. That's 4 against 1. I'll go with the odds & suggest you take on-board the comments you received.

Suck it up, Princess....
Rather than addressing the style guidelines, MartinOC chooses to attack Grainer, suggesting he doesn't deserve an opinion. He could have addressed Grainer with a PM, but chooses to attempt to publicly ridicule him.

Grainer said:
Didn't have an issue with the score.. just surprised, didn't expect the result.. probably like most with an unexpected result.
Grainer shows maturity and doesn't bite.

Grainer said:
Thanks dude.. we all realise the HUGE effort you go to to do this.. Thanks
In fact he thanks MartinOC for his stewarding efforts.
 
MartinOC, on 14 Sept 2016 - 7:34 PM, said:
How in hell could you POSSIBLY be surprised?!?!

You entered a Bouchet (which fits into "other mead") as a "sweet mead". It's obviously outside the guidelines for that style, so it got appropriately hammered.

I'm guessing you couldn't enter two "others" (thus breaking the rules) & decided to take a punt. Nice try - fail...the judges on the day got the better of you.

But MartinOC always wants the last word. Maybe he has an inferiority complex and feels a need to constantly prove his position. He claims that the guidelines make it clear where the beer should have been entered, but another forum member, Manticle, appears to have been somewhat confused by the style guidelines as well, so it is arguably not clear at all.
Then, completely unprovoked, MartinOC accuses Grainer of attempting to cheat. This is really not okay, especially for a Head Steward. Right here I start to think that MartinOC should be stripped of his duties in future competitions.

Grainer, on 14 Sept 2016 - 7:43 PM, said:
Its not an other mead! get your shit straight .. it is just honey and water dude ..serious..it was a sweet mead. all it has is a cook involved..no other ingredients that would qualify it as an other.. OMG you so gotta pull your head in and stop throwing out outrageous accusations.

Under attack, Grainer rightfully responds. He accuse MartinOC of bias. He doesn't question his qualifications. But he does rightfully admonish his attitude.

Grainer, on 14 Sept 2016 - 8:10 PM, said:
If that is the case happy to get stripped of the 2nd place ! I really don't care.. I entered into the category I thought it belonged! Bouchet or the style is not mentioned anywhere and from all I searched on the web no one knew which category it belonged. Leave it to Vicbrew and I will probably not send to nationals cause of this so called accusation. happy to hand over to someone else.


MartinOC, on 14 Sept 2016 - 8:12 PM, said:
QED

MartinOC could apologise, but instead acts smug.

Grainer, on 14 Sept 2016 - 8:14 PM, said:
as expected
 
Grainer, on 14 Sept 2016 - 8:19 PM, said:
[SIZE=14.6667px]M4B. Historical Mead[/SIZE]
A Historical Mead is a historical or indigenous mead that doesn’t fit into another subcategory (e.g., Ethiopian tej, Polish meads). The BJCP welcomes submissions of writeups of historical or indigenous styles that fit into this category.
Overall Impression: This mead should exhibit the character of all of the ingredients in varying degrees, and should show a good blending or balance between the various flavor elements.Whatever ingredients are included, the result should be identifiable as a honey-based fermented beverage.

​Bouchet does not Qualify for Historical mead given this statement. Bouchet does not have an identifiable honey base or other ingredients that would require it to be balanced. It really doesnt naturally fit anywhere under the mead judging guidelines but clearly fits under sweet mead in the Beer BJCP.

​The accusation was that I tried to cheat by entering 2 x other meads.. one in an other category being a JAO and a bochet which is just honey and water and would qualify as a sweet mead given the BJCP guidelines.

Grainer addresses his initial concerns, asking for clarification about style guidelines.

Grainer, on 14 Sept 2016 - 8:28 PM, said:
QUOTE : "I'm guessing you couldn't enter two "others" (thus breaking the rules) & decided to take a punt. Nice try - fail...the judges on the day got the better of you."

So the clear accusation that was made is that I was trying to cheat the system.. hence why I am pissed off at Martin for being an absolute tool in the accusation. It is totally uncalled for.

manticle tried to search 2015.. but didn't get anywhere any assistance would be good for what you are trying to point me to.

Grainer accuses MartinOC of being a 'tool' because he accused Grainer of cheating. I think that's more than fair. He was a MASSIVE tool.

manticle, on 14 Sept 2016 - 8:55 PM, said:
The one I'm downloading says 'ethiopian tej, bouchet, polish mead'.


MartinOC, on 14 Sept 2016 - 8:55 PM, said:
Slap!

Again, MartinOC attempts to belittle Grainer.

Grainer, on 15 Sept 2016 - 12:37 PM, said:
thank you for the clarification You must have had to search a long time! mine isn't a classical bochet but had that name..mistake on the naming on my behalf then when entering.. should have been "caramelised sweet mead"... it had no additives like a classical bochet.

Again, Grainer shows maturity by not responding.

MartinOC, on 20 Sept 2016 - 9:07 PM, said:
Just a few "small" points for everyone to consider...(& one person in particular...):

1. I (MartinOC) am NOT the official voice of Vicbrew on this forum. I just happen to be more active here than others on the Committee. My opinions & comments are my own & I stand by them 100%. Got a problem? PM me & we can sort it out. Mostly, but not always, amicably....

2. If you have a query about where to place one of your entries in future, I'm more than happy to guide you (as has happened earlier in this thread).

3. Bleating because the Judges didn't think your creation wasn't as good as you thought it was is fruitless. If you put it into the wrong category or sub-style, suck it up, Princess... It's the rules of entry.

4. Personally contacting the BJCP to adjudicate on the matter is fruitless - they defer to the individual competition organiser, as has happened.

5. Contacting Vicbrew, requesting to chastise an individual member of the Committee over personal comments here & demanding a public apology will just make you even MORE of a laughing-stock than you are already. And you already ARE laughing-stock....within the Committee & here amongst the AHB community.

On a personal level, you can GET FUCKED if you expect an apology from me - privately or publicly.

You know who you are...

Edit: You dug the hole...now you have to lay in it...

Edit #2: Well! No surprises that you've blocked PM's from me - Don't want to hear the bad news, eh? Just bury your head in the sand & make-out you're God's-gift to the brewing community, eh?? If you won't hear it privately, then I guess I'll just have to do it publicly..

MartinOC gets up on his high horse again. He created this forum topic, and answers questions in this topic as if he speaks for VicBrew, but now attempts to distance himself from his role as Head Steward. In this forum, and in this topic especially, he is acting as Head Steward and his behaviour should be judged accordingly.

He again abuses Grainer, accusing him of bleating, calling him a Princess again, and a laughing-stock.

And for the finale, tells Grainer to "GET FUCKED".

Grainer, on 21 Sept 2016 - 7:18 PM, said:
OK I will respond now… I have given this some thought and time now and of course it is all directed at me everyone knows that.

Yes, you are correct Barls and Yob, I did go about this the wrong way and I should have contacted the judges concerned to get their opinions in the background as per the form via email.. in hindsight that would have been a better approach. Unfortunately, I had posted what was on my mind without giving it too much thought of the ramification of what I was writing at the time, seems to be a common trait of mine but no offence was intended. At no stage did I intend on insulting the judges..that being the case I realise I may have done this and I am sorry to those judges.

I have done my own research into the mead in question through both Vicbrew and BJCP and yes it should have gone into “other meads” but at the time of entry, I thought it should be in “sweet meads” and hence entered it there. This is an honest mistake unlike what I have been accused of.

At no point was I suggesting my scores should be changed and am quite fine with the final scores.. I said was that I was surprised with one mead… and as stated, I should have sent a PM to the judges in question to get their feedback rather than the way I went about it. This is noted for the future and a harsh lesson learnt for me. I had several beers that did VERY badly and have never questioned these, all the comments were great and the feedback spot on.

Just to be clear, at no stage did I abuse anyone all the abuse has been directed to me to date, some called for other not.

I love home brewing and contributing to this forum and think it is a great way to connect. I am a very giving person of my time when it comes to brewing and I am a little bit of a perfectionist/scientist .. I love it.. I am passionate about a lot of things.. and this comes across in my personality.. I am a little full on at times and this is often mistaken for other things, I understand how this is perceived by others.. give it time and maybe you will understand who I really am if you wish.

This is where I will leave it. Hopefully I can apologise to those judges in person at some stage over a beer if they like.

cheers
Grainer

And yet again Grainer shows restraint.

So what was Grainer's mistake here? He certainly wasn't the only person to question the results:

GalBrew, on 13 Sept 2016 - 11:41 AM, said:
dannymars, on 13 Sept 2016 - 11:38 AM, said:
Reading the score sheet... It's definitely not my beer...

"No hops, no bitterness, watery, 0 carbonation... Almost porter in darkness." All impossible descriptors for the beer I submitted.

I counter-pressure filled (should hold carb)... plus, it was a 200+ IBU beer. I doubt any beer that bitter is going to change in the bottle to that degree.

Also, out of the 3 IIPA scoresheets, one of them is a sheet I wrote for a Robust Porter.
-------------------
That description is spot on for the beer we got back from the judges. Brown, tasteless, watery and flat. We were all confused behind the bar too if it makes you feel better.

After every competition questions are asked about the results. So did Grainer deserve this abuse? And even if he was in the wrong, is it appropriate for the Head Steward to abuse entrants like this? Is it even okay for people to abuse other Aussie Home Brewer forum members like this?

I say it's not okay, and it's left an awful taste in my mouth.

Grainer, you are the kind of passionate brewer that brings value to this forum, and the brewing community generally. You have shown impressive maturity in this situation, and I hope that other forum members can find the courage to support you.

MartinOC, your actions are deplorable. You have completely disgraced yourself, and VicBrew by association, and need to apologise, wholeheartedly, to Grainer immediately. I don't see how you can continue in any formal position at future competitions, but that is not my decision to make. I have stewarded and judged at VicBrew and have no intention of volunteering my time again, or even entering, as long as you are associated with the competition.
 
..I think this is over for now.. lets move on we all do things our own ways sometimes intentions are mistaken on all sides.. have a beer ..it always helps in moderation :p
 
I thought this issue was dead and buried.
Comments supporting either side are just dredging up issues that are dead and buried.
Personally I believe that losing either the most experienced competition coordinator or an excellent brewer and judge would be a loss to the brewing community in Victoria. Everyone is entitled to their opinion but, as both parties involved have stated, the opinions that they have shared on here would have been better discussed privately. Lets move on people!

Good luck to everyone that has qualified for the nationals, lets hope Victoria wins!
 
evvy.rogerson said:
I don't see how it can be "dead and buried" in this topic until MartinOC has apologised, profusely.
The only opinions that matter are those of the two parties involved so it doesn't really matter what you can or can't see mate, Relax, don't worry have a home brew.
 
profusely? he did that already but you may have missed it.

sleeping dogs mate, NealK said it - have a homie
 
As I said earlier : civility will be the order of the day.

Evvy - if Martin's longer post had been openly addressing a specific poster, some moderation would have been applied. However the target was unspecified, Grainer put his hand up. There may have been more from behind the scenes on either side unseen here.

Additionally I have not seen where Martin accused Grainer of cheating - I believe that has been inferred incorrectly by both yourself and Grainer initially.

If you want to continue the discussion, either do it via pm, email to vicbrew or really, really politely here.

As I know personally a few of the parties involved I will step away from moderation but have asked fellow mods further removed to keep an eye and lock/hide anything that gets out of hand.
 
Thanks, Manticle.

Previous attempts to sort this out via PM's found me deliberately blocked from communication & previous conversations we've had have somehow disappeared from my inbox.

I tried......
 
By that logic, there is a REAL F*CKING WANKER COWARD involved with VicBrew.

Since I have not addressed anyone specifically I have not done anything wrong.


"I'm guessing you couldn't enter two "others" (thus breaking the rules) & decided to take a punt."

How can you interpret this comment as anything other than an accusation of cheating?

It certainly isn't the word "guessing". If I say "I guess you're a wanker" I'm accusing you of being a wanker.

And it can't be "& decided to take a punt". If I accuse you of "taking a punt" on counting cards at the casino because you weren't allowed to write down what the cards are I'm accusing you of cheating.
 
And I don't know what this is. Is it a threat, or an admission of guilt?


MartinOC


Insert something suitably witty here
  • Members
  • bullet_black.png
    bullet_black.png
    bullet_black.png
    bullet_black.png
    bullet_black.png
    bullet_black.png
    bullet_black.png
    bullet_black.png
    bullet_black.png
  • 2,171 posts
  • Joined 10-January 10



Sent Today, 07:30 PM
Ain't gonna happen. Publicly, privately or profusely. Too much history. End of story.

Drop it.
Just the ONE international prize...

Bummocker to the Cogniscenti
 
evvy.rogerson said:
Relax, don't worry, be abusive.
your treading close to rule 15 mate
15. Posts believed to be "trolling", off-topic or deliberately hijacking a thread will be deleted.
this was previously sorted
 
Back
Top