Vic Xmas Case Swap 2010

[brendo]

I don't quite understand the appeal of keg->cpbf->bottle sequence for case swaps?

As I see it, bottling directly involves:
1. Primary
2. Direct bottling via bottling wand (possible infection vector)
3. Cap

Kegging for later bottling involves:
1. Primary
2. Rack to keg (possible infection vector)
3. Force carbonate
4. Bottle using CPBF (possible infection vector)
5. Cap

The main advantage I see in this approach is the ability to provide a yeast-free bottle, and optionally filter on the way to the keg. This is counter pointed by no longer having "live" beer in the bottle, so the shelf life of the supplied bottle is less. For normal drinking, I can definitely see the appeal of kegging, and will be getting on that bandwagon soon enough.

So, keg->cpbf'ers, what's your take on this?

While I don't completely disagree with your assumptions Warmbeer, I would add:

1. Possible infection by moving to keg - sanitation is sanitation, if you work clean it should be no more of a risk than going direct to bottle. Same with the infection risk on the actual CPBF as well - no different to using your "little-bottler" straight off of the fermentor (as you noted) - if it ain't clean and sanitised, it is an infection risk.
2. Force carbonate - I typically just hook up at serving pressure. The biggest advantage I see here is that I can "dial-in" my level of carbonation, allowing me to adjust on the fly (more or less) to get it to the point where I am happiest with it.
3. Yes CPBF results in less yeast into the bottle, it's one advantage of the method. However, the other thing I like (in addition to the carbonation issue I discussed above) is that I find that larger volumes of beer (keg vs individual bottle) tend to condition much quicker - when I used to soley bottle I would find that beers started to be good for drinking 4-6 weeks after bottling, kegs are generally much quicker to go. So if you are pushed for time, this can be a distinct advantage.

At the end of the day it is horses for courses - both methods work and in the right hands result in a well packaged beer. If you have the technology, and aren't afraid to use it, then I don't see an issue in using it.

Brendo

 

[WarmBeer]

While I don't completely disagree with your assumptions Warmbeer, I would add:

1. Possible infection by moving to keg - sanitation is sanitation, if you work clean it should be no more of a risk than going direct to bottle. Same with the infection risk on the actual CPBF as well - no different to using your "little-bottler" straight off of the fermentor (as you noted) - if it ain't clean and sanitised, it is an infection risk.
2. Force carbonate - I typically just hook up at serving pressure. The biggest advantage I see here is that I can "dial-in" my level of carbonation, allowing me to adjust on the fly (more or less) to get it to the point where I am happiest with it.
3. Yes CPBF results in less yeast into the bottle, it's one advantage of the method. However, the other thing I like (in addition to the carbonation issue I discussed above) is that I find that larger volumes of beer (keg vs individual bottle) tend to condition much quicker - when I used to soley bottle I would find that beers started to be good for drinking 4-6 weeks after bottling, kegs are generally much quicker to go. So if you are pushed for time, this can be a distinct advantage.

At the end of the day it is horses for courses - both methods work and in the right hands result in a well packaged beer. If you have the technology, and aren't afraid to use it, then I don't see an issue in using it.

Brendo

Informed and reasoned debate, rather than trolling and name-calling? Have I somehow ended up in some "bizarro" dimension, as this surely this can't the be same AHB we're all used to

See you guys Sat night. I'm excited!!!

 

[MeLoveBeer]

3. Yes CPBF results in less yeast into the bottle, it's one advantage of the method. However, the other thing I like (in addition to the carbonation issue I discussed above) is that I find that larger volumes of beer (keg vs individual bottle) tend to condition much quicker - when I used to soley bottle I would find that beers started to be good for drinking 4-6 weeks after bottling, kegs are generally much quicker to go. So if you are pushed for time, this can be a distinct advantage.

This reinforces my suspicions Brendan. In the context of Siborgs original question, do you think its worthwhile conditioning bottles filled with a CPBF or will the effects be minimal?

 

[brendo]

Informed and reasoned debate, rather than trolling and name-calling? Have I somehow ended up in some "bizarro" dimension, as this surely this can't the be same AHB we're all used to

See you guys Sat night. I'm excited!!!

Sorry mate... I forgot where I was at...

YOU SUCK!!!


feel better now?? Assuming you are there tomorrow, I can give you an Indian Burn while I am at it...

 

[brendo]

This reinforces my suspicions Brendan. In the context of Siborgs original question, do you think its worthwhile conditioning bottles filled with a CPBF or will the effects be minimal?

It's a good question mate... and one I don't have a definitive answer for given I have really only CPBF'd for the last case swap and some comp entries along the way - rather than long term storage.

I would think that the beer would still "condition" regardless of the method, there is still going to be yeast in the beer (even if it was filtered) and I would expect that you would still get the same (or similar reactions in the beer) - rounding of the malt, bitterness and alcohol, loss of hop flavour/aroma (over extended periods of time) and then ultimately a decline in beer.

I wouldn't expect a big difference in the short term (i.e. months), however for long term storage if it was me - I suspect that I would still bottle condition. It would be an interesting experiment to carry out and I personally would be interested in anyone else's experience with this.

 

[WarmBeer]

...feel better now?? Assuming you are there tomorrow, I can give you an Indian Burn while I am at it...

As long as it's not an East Indian Burn h34r:

 

[MeLoveBeer]

As long as it's not an East Indian Burn h34r:

I knew I'd regret clicking that link, but couldn't stop myself... It's nice that the act has finally got a name.

 

[Leigh]

So all bottled now and ready for tomorrow...It was great to be able to sample/drink my contribution last night to make sure it was good to go...something I haven't had the luxury of doing with more numbers in the swap.

Was a breeze CPBF...in response to wb, it sounds more complicated, but is in fact easier and quicker than the normal bottling process...and you provide a nice clean trub free experience to the consumer.

 

[haysie]

without the thread turning into a cpbf thread, i`ll just add one word Consistency, something that is near on impossible to achieve with beer sitting on yeast.

Have a super time folk. Looking forward to drinking the efforts.

 

[Fents]

good luck for tommorow guys make it a ripper, someone represent, roll a phattie and make all the oldies pass out early.

dont forget the camera and texta's!

bottoms up! :drinks:

 

[Siborg]

It's a good question mate... and one I don't have a definitive answer for given I have really only CPBF'd for the last case swap and some comp entries along the way - rather than long term storage.

I would think that the beer would still "condition" regardless of the method, there is still going to be yeast in the beer (even if it was filtered) and I would expect that you would still get the same (or similar reactions in the beer) - rounding of the malt, bitterness and alcohol, loss of hop flavour/aroma (over extended periods of time) and then ultimately a decline in beer.

I wouldn't expect a big difference in the short term (i.e. months), however for long term storage if it was me - I suspect that I would still bottle condition. It would be an interesting experiment to carry out and I personally would be interested in anyone else's experience with this.

Looks like I'll have a couple of spare bottles, so I might put one or two aside and see if some of you BJCP guys can make some comments at the club meetings over the next couple of months.

 

[brettprevans]

With all this pulling out I hope brewers pay better attention to safe sex than u do case swaps...lol

 

[brendo]

With all this pulling out I hope brewers pay better attention to safe sex than u do case swaps...lol

What's wrong with the rythm method??

 

[chris.taylor.98]

Damn this working thing ... now I remember why I wanted to be unemployed for the last 3 months ...

Anyway all systems go for tomorrow, no rain forecast, lots of kegs, lots of brewers, lots of food ... hopefully all in the right ratios.


To add to the CPBF discussion, I almost exclusively CPBF now but mainly cause I am lazy (only bottle what I have to, drink the rest from the keg)

There are plenty of very good brewers (and some very accomplished) that have never kegged beers. Think that for long term storage, storing on the yeast is better (although have not tried a blind tasting session).

Maybe we can do an experiment tomorrow. Think I have some older beers that are split between CPBF and primed in the bottle.


One more sleep ...

 

[Wolfy]

Sorry guys, I've not had time to do anything beer-related since VicBrew, not even sure I've been on the forums since then either.
The last 2 batches of beer are not suitable for swapping (one didn't turn out as expected, the other was split and fermented with different yeast), so not only do I have nothing to swap but SWMBO has a concert to go to which means I can't attend on the day.
Hopefully I'll have everything sorted by Christmas/New Year and will see everyone at BeerFest.

 

[michael_aussie]

Good luck folks.
I hope you have a great day.
Maybe in a future swap I'll be in.

 

[Cocko]

Sorry guys, I've not had time to do anything beer-related since VicBrew, not even sure I've been on the forums since then either.
The last 2 batches of beer are not suitable for swapping (one didn't turn out as expected, the other was split and fermented with different yeast), so not only do I have nothing to swap but SWMBO has a concert to go to which means I can't attend on the day.
Hopefully I'll have everything sorted by Christmas/New Year and will see everyone at BeerFest.

Are you serious? the night before.... Oh dear.

I understand things happen in life / brewing and this is the busiest time of year but when was the sign up, August?

Shit house.

 

[manticle]

Suggestion for next swap: Anyone who pulls out with less than x weeks to go (actual number to be decided) must provide the equivalent volume in commercial beer. Acceptable commercial beers only (actual list to be decided), non swapper gets no beer back unless they rock up on the day, brew AND provide goat for everyone.

 

[michael_aussie]

Suggestion for next swap: Anyone who pulls out with less than x weeks to go (actual number to be decided) must provide the equivalent volume in commercial beer. Acceptable commercial beers only (actual list to be decided), non swapper gets no beer back unless they rock up on the day, brew AND provide goat for everyone.

and no ugly goats accepted

 

[manticle]

Goat has to be hot.