Using Rice In A Summer Pale Ale.

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i disagree. Grapes also have a long history of use in fermented beverages, as do apples and many other things. but as far as i know there isnt any style of beer that has corn or rice in it...the germans dont use it, eastern europe doesnt, england doesnt, the monks dont...however, budweisser do, corona do etc

Ps i didnt say you cant use it, i said it is unessecary, which is in my opinion 98.66% (bradmans average) correct.

Ok settle down nashie and listen. Rice and corn were used extensively in American and British beers starting in the middle of the Nineteenth Century, for two reasons:

UK: the use of the new artificial fertilisers produced high nitrogen barleys that were giving persistent hazes in beers, and that at a time when glassware was becoming cheaper and ordinary drinkers - and pubs - could afford to buy glass. So the appearance and clarity of the beer became important. Grain adjuncts could use up the 'diastatic power' of the malt and prevent the hazes, as well as producing a lighter bodied beer such as the "running beers" of the early 20th century that developed into modern bitters and milds.

USA: similarly, as the Americans adopted lagers as opposed to ales, their six row barley could not by itself produce clear beers similar to the Pilseners and pale Lagers of Europe. They needed to use a fair amount of grain adjunct ... rice from Louisiana and maize from the Midwest, to wrestle a good clear beer from the high protein malts available to them.


So nashie there's two styles for you, and yes the UK did use a lot of rice and corn until modern highly modified malts such as Maris Otter were developed after the Second World War. They tend to use brewing sugars nowadays to keep their beers "in style".

Keep hanging around the forum, do some reading, and you'll learn some background, as I have myself.

Cheers
:icon_cheers:
 
To leave off from this silly argument for a moment

Can someone comment on why flaked rice is preferred on this forum over plain old edible rice from the supermarket, suck as Zwickle mentions. I'm planning on making a light-bodied Aussie ale driven by POR as a house beer that can be repeated often for my unadventurous friends and family. My only experience with it (a cautious 250 grams) to date is still fermenting so no idea what it will add to the finished brew.

On a similar note, what's the fermentability calculation for rice in a mash ? Theoretically speaking, how much rice would be needed in a 23 litre brew to end up with a 1.050 OG. Being theortical, not including any enzyme activity of the grain that might be required to convert the starches.
 
Can someone comment on why flaked rice is preferred on this forum over plain old edible rice from the supermarket, suck as Zwickle mentions. I'm planning on making a light-bodied Aussie ale driven by POR as a house beer that can be repeated often for my unadventurous friends and family. My only experience with it (a cautious 250 grams) to date is still fermenting so no idea what it will add to the finished brew.
I plan to use rice in my next brew and have done a lot of reading on this forum about rice. From what I've read plain ol' normal rice is the preferred method. From what I've gathered you just cook it up the night before with plenty of water until it is pretty gluggy, then let it cool back down to normal temp and throw it in with your mash.

I've read a few people (NickJD is the only one I remember off the top of my head) who use rice as about 30% of their grain bill. Just search for rice in the search and there are a bunch of threads worth reading.
 
i disagree. Grapes also have a long history of use in fermented beverages, as do apples and many other things. but as far as i know there isnt any style of beer that has corn or rice in it...the germans dont use it, eastern europe doesnt, england doesnt, the monks dont...however, budweisser do, corona do etc

Ps i didnt say you cant use it, i said it is unessecary, which is in my opinion 98.66% (bradmans average) correct.

Look up chicha, a fermented drink made from malted corn or Tesguino. Additionally when you say the Germans don't etc I'm guessing you mean commercial breweries. Apart from being incorrect (as Bribie points out some English breweries have used it) beer is and has been made all over the world by people with no commercial outlet - including homebrewers.

Styles are not strictly bound pieces of dogma either - the beer comes first then the style describes it. If people want to put rice in their beer because it gives it a quality they like then it really doesn't matter if Orval isn't doing the same thing. They are not doing it to make everything cheaper so to claim that's the only use of the two items is plainly wrong.

Call me a girl if you like, I'm not sure how much I care. Fact is - rice and corn have uses other than the one you describe. If you're not a fan of using it then fair enough but there's more to the picture than you suggest.
 
Ok settle down nashie and listen. Rice and corn were used extensively in American and British beers starting in the middle of the Nineteenth Century, for two reasons:

UK: the use of the new artificial fertilisers produced high nitrogen barleys that were giving persistent hazes in beers, and that at a time when glassware was becoming cheaper and ordinary drinkers - and pubs - could afford to buy glass. So the appearance and clarity of the beer became important. Grain adjuncts could use up the 'diastatic power' of the malt and prevent the hazes, as well as producing a lighter bodied beer such as the "running beers" of the early 20th century that developed into modern bitters and milds.

USA: similarly, as the Americans adopted lagers as opposed to ales, their six row barley could not by itself produce clear beers similar to the Pilseners and pale Lagers of Europe. They needed to use a fair amount of grain adjunct ... rice from Louisiana and maize from the Midwest, to wrestle a good clear beer from the high protein malts available to them.


So nashie there's two styles for you, and yes the UK did use a lot of rice and corn until modern highly modified malts such as Maris Otter were developed after the Second World War. They tend to use brewing sugars nowadays to keep their beers "in style".

Keep hanging around the forum, do some reading, and you'll learn some background, as I have myself.

Cheers
:icon_cheers:


Your knowledge on the history of beer is clearer more advanced than mine. However my original point- that to make a nice clean, sessionable, light coloured lager or pilsener...rice and or corn are simply unnecessary-still stands .............experimentation aside. And to a large degree my other point that rice/corn in modern brewing are mainly used as cost cutters ....
 
That may be what you meant but not what you wrote. Nothing wrong with a bit of clarification.
 
Call me a girl if you like, I'm not sure how much I care. Fact is - rice and corn have uses other than the one you describe. If you're not a fan of using it then fair enough but there's more to the picture than you suggest.


You might not care but I would!
 
Your knowledge on the history of beer is clearer more advanced than mine. However my original point- that to make a nice clean, sessionable, light coloured lager or pilsener...rice and or corn are simply unnecessary-still stands .............experimentation aside. And to a large degree my other point that rice/corn in modern brewing are mainly used as cost cutters ....

Budvar contains a small portion of rice & i would very much doubt it's for cost cutting. Maize is also still used extensively in British & American beers. Yes, there's no need to add, but there's absolutely nothing wrong in using them either.

Cheers Ross
 
I'd agree that they are not Mandatory. However it's a bit like saying that Turkish Bread or Focaccia are unnecessary to make a tasty lunchtime snack, only wholemeal bread needs to be used. Depends on the style style style. Yesterday I made a Helles style Southern German Lager with 100% malt (4kg Galaxy Pilsener and 1kg Vienna). I'm sure that will be light and sessionable. Tomorrow I'll be cranking out an American Cream Ale with 4kg Galaxy and 1kg Polenta. The Galaxy cost me about $3 a kilo, the Polenta was over $4. However that will also be a nice sessionable light summery ale.
 
Budvar contains a small portion of rice & i would very much doubt it's for cost cutting. Maize is also still used extensively in British & American beers. Yes, there's no need to add, but there's absolutely nothing wrong in using them either.

Cheers Ross

Not sure where you got that info Ross... Mind you I have no objection to Rice in my own beers and quite enjoy it.

Budvar is brewed in the Czech Republic and is not to be confused with a British-brewed American rice beer with a similar name. The Czech beer is a far superior product and a perfect beer for the hot summer weather.

Budvar is a straw-coloured lager with a distinctive floral, hoppy nose caused by the Saaz hops from Zatec used to brew this beer. This lager is also brewed with 100% Moravian malt, not rice or sugar and the result is a dry, biscuity flavour with a dry finish on the aftertaste. The term lager means to store and Budvar is lagered in the brewery for 90 days, a far longer time than most beers of this style and the first class ingredients together with the care shown by this brewery in keeping to traditional methods all contribute to produce one of the best beers in the world.


If you have info to the contrary I'd be interested to know where you found it.

Warren -
 
Not sure where you got that info Ross... Mind you I have no objection to Rice in my own beers and quite enjoy it.

Budvar is brewed in the Czech Republic and is not to be confused with a British-brewed American rice beer with a similar name. The Czech beer is a far superior product and a perfect beer for the hot summer weather.

Budvar is a straw-coloured lager with a distinctive floral, hoppy nose caused by the Saaz hops from Zatec used to brew this beer. This lager is also brewed with 100% Moravian malt, not rice or sugar and the result is a dry, biscuity flavour with a dry finish on the aftertaste. The term lager means to store and Budvar is lagered in the brewery for 90 days, a far longer time than most beers of this style and the first class ingredients together with the care shown by this brewery in keeping to traditional methods all contribute to produce one of the best beers in the world.


If you have info to the contrary I'd be interested to know where you found it.

Warren -

Yeah I didn't think any of those serious german or czech beers broke the reinheitsgebot law...
 
What about Jasmine Rice? I can tell the difference between white and Jasmine when I eat it, I wonder what the difference will be to brew with it compared to regular rice.
 
I would stick to the normal long grain rice. Im sure jasmine will add something else, and im not sure it will be pleasant.
 
To leave off from this silly argument for a moment

Can someone comment on why flaked rice is preferred on this forum over plain old edible rice from the supermarket, suck as Zwickle mentions. I'm planning on making a light-bodied Aussie ale driven by POR as a house beer that can be repeated often for my unadventurous friends and family. My only experience with it (a cautious 250 grams) to date is still fermenting so no idea what it will add to the finished brew.

On a similar note, what's the fermentability calculation for rice in a mash ? Theoretically speaking, how much rice would be needed in a 23 litre brew to end up with a 1.050 OG. Being theortical, not including any enzyme activity of the grain that might be required to convert the starches.
As I understand it flaked rice has already been gelatinized, dried out and flaked so it can go straight into your mash. If you're using regular rice from coles you need to boil it to gelatinize it. I tip a 1kg bag into 5 litres of water and boil for an hour. Then that goes into the strike water, I get it to the right temp and dough in as normal.
I have had great success with a light lager I made with rice, really delicious. I did have problems lautering the last ricey mash, I'll be keeping the mash a bit looser in fututre.
As for the argument, well this forum is always entertaining :)
 
I've used short grain sushi rice before with success.
 
I notice a lot of recipes mention a protein rest. Is this nessacary?
The simplest method I have seen is to boil the wice the wight before, then dump the wot in the mash tun with malt/s for a simple sachrication mash. Any downside to this method?
 
I notice a lot of recipes mention a protein rest. Is this nessacary?
The simplest method I have seen is to boil the wice the wight before, then dump the wot in the mash tun with malt/s for a simple sachrication mash. Any downside to this method?

Not that I know of. I boil the rice an hour or two before grinding the grain, and my cooling method involves successive washing of the cooked rice with cold water. This removes a lot of the gloopy stuff that makes sticky rice, sticky. I think it might be proteins, so it might help to wash the cooked or even uncooked rice - but as ever, it's a guess.

Beer with rice in it is always very clear, no idea why.
 
Not that I know of. I boil the rice an hour or two before grinding the grain, and my cooling method involves successive washing of the cooked rice with cold water. This removes a lot of the gloopy stuff that makes sticky rice, sticky. I think it might be proteins, so it might help to wash the cooked or even uncooked rice - but as ever, it's a guess.

Beer with rice in it is always very clear, no idea why.

I guess the conversion of the rice during mashing uses up enzymes (which are proteins) that might otherwise hang around and cause hazes - that's why they started using rice and corn in the first place (quite apart from any cost cutting) . I don't know the chemistry, Fourstar would be on top of that.
 

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