Using Rice In A Summer Pale Ale.

[haysie]

Not that I know of. I boil the rice an hour or two before grinding the grain, and my cooling method involves successive washing of the cooked rice with cold water. This removes a lot of the gloopy stuff that makes sticky rice, sticky. I think it might be proteins, so it might help to wash the cooked or even uncooked rice - but as ever, it's a guess.

Beer with rice in it is always very clear, no idea why.

If washing and then adding the rice Nick, does it absorb more during the mash, leaving less run off?

I guess the conversion of the rice during mashing uses up enzymes (which are proteins) that might otherwise hang around and cause hazes - that's why they started using rice and corn in the first place (quite apart from any cost cutting) . I don't know the chemistry, Fourstar would be on top of that.

To wash or not to wash? I`m readind dont wash?

spelling again

 

[Bribie G]

I don't wash, I think the 'dust' on rice nowadays is just starch, a long time ago it used to be talc to make the rice more shiny looking for the trade.

 

[therook]

If washing and then adding the rice Nick, does it absorb more during the mash, leaving less run off?




To wash or not to wash? I`m readind dont wash?

spelling again

I wash mine and then cook it in a rice cooker the night before.

Rook

 

[Nick JD]

If washing and then adding the rice Nick, does it absorb more during the mash, leaving less run off?

It's weird. When I use 500g of cooked rice and say, 2.5kg of malt it takes up heaps of space in the mash (the rice is as big as the grain because it's already "wet").

Then when the bag is pulled out ... the rice has disappeared! I think it almost completely converts - it's like adding sugar, the volume doesn't increase, the liquid just gets denser.

 

[haysie]

I wash mine and then cook it in a rice cooker the night before.

Rook

Hiya Rook, Do you do a protein rest?
Trying to determine the simplest method
1/ i.e washing precooked rice as you do OR washing cooked rice as looks like Nick does.
2/ Is a protein rest realy nessacary? Most recipes include one. I dont wish to do one and would forgo using rice if I had to step mash.
3/ Absorb`s how much wort per kilo? same as malt or having already absorbed truckloads of water does one only account for the malt
4/ If using Beersmith, calculate plain old rice as flakes?

 

[therook]

Hiya Rook, Do you do a protein rest?
Trying to determine the simplest method
1/ i.e washing precooked rice as you do OR washing cooked rice as looks like Nick does.
2/ Is a protein rest realy nessacary? Most recipes include one. I dont wish to do one and would forgo using rice if I had to step mash.
3/ Absorb`s how much wort per kilo? same as malt or having already absorbed truckloads of water does one only account for the malt
4/ If using Beersmith, calculate plain old rice as flakes?

G'day haysie,

1. I only wash pre cooked as i dont want to take the gamble the powder is Talc
2. Never ever done a Protein rest in any beer
3. Good question, i add it to the MT and look at it as dry grain and that it will absorb some water ( were not talking shit loads of rice so were not adding shit loads of water )
4. Yep

Hope this helps a bit



Rook

 

[Bribie G]

It's weird. When I use 500g of cooked rice and say, 2.5kg of malt it takes up heaps of space in the mash (the rice is as big as the grain because it's already "wet").

Then when the bag is pulled out ... the rice has disappeared! I think it almost completely converts - it's like adding sugar, the volume doesn't increase, the liquid just gets denser.

I'm glad about that Nick, I thought I was hallucinating. I've done a couple of brews the last few days. First one had an all malt bill of around 6kg and when I'd finally squeezed the bag and took it out to the compost it was bloody heavy. Last night I did a lager with similar grain weight but a kilo and a half of rice and after hoisting and squeezing it was a tiny little light husk-ball in comparison to the all malt. Also it seems to be far dryer, I think the rice that does remain is in the form of rice hull type objects that help free draining.

 

[haysie]

Ok, I`ll have a bit each way thanks. I`ll prewash the rice then cook it, leave overnight (wont sour the mash will it ) add with the grains, maybe go a little thinner with mash water i.e 4ltrs>1kg, mash low n long.
If it all goes pear shaped......look out :angry:

Thanks

 

[Ross]

QUOTE (warrenlw63 @ May 26 2010, 10:23 AM)
Not sure where you got that info Ross... Mind you I have no objection to Rice in my own beers and quite enjoy it.

Budvar is brewed in the Czech Republic and is not to be confused with a British-brewed American rice beer with a similar name. The Czech beer is a far superior product and a perfect beer for the hot summer weather.

Budvar is a straw-coloured lager with a distinctive floral, hoppy nose caused by the Saaz hops from Zatec used to brew this beer. This lager is also brewed with 100% Moravian malt, not rice or sugar and the result is a dry, biscuity flavour with a dry finish on the aftertaste. The term lager means to store and Budvar is lagered in the brewery for 90 days, a far longer time than most beers of this style and the first class ingredients together with the care shown by this brewery in keeping to traditional methods all contribute to produce one of the best beers in the world.

If you have info to the contrary I'd be interested to know where you found it.

Warren -

Yeah I didn't think any of those serious german or czech beers broke the reinheitsgebot law...

Sorry for late reply guys, only just read this.

The person who told me was the malster within Budvar who came over here & was head brewer at Mt Brewery for a period. Of course, he could have been lying, but I very much doubt it.
From memory it was only 1 or 2%, but there nevertheless.


Cheers Ross

 

[NickB]

My process basically involves doughing in my mash at protein rest temps (approx. 50C) and resting for 20 mins. Prior to that I just boil some white rice until mushy (no rinsing pre or post boil), and when ready, dump into the mash, and step up to the sacc. rest temp (I use a HERMS so this is easy). From there I mash the full 60 or 90 mins, mash out and brew as normal.

This is my latest effort. Had some Green Bullet left over, so used that. Really coming into its own now. Shame I only did a small batch and there's about 6 bottles left? Oh well, double batch next time!




Cheers

 

[Bribie G]

re Budvar: The Czech republic was part of the Austro Hungarian Empire till 1918 and although they used pure malt and hops they were not German and didn't have to adhere (or feel they had to adhere) to the Reinheitsgebot - the other countries that emeged from that Empire such as Austria itself use adjuncts nowadays. According to Protz the venerable brands such as Gosser have up to 20% maize etc. I get the feeling that Czech breweries continued to be more 'traditional' into modern times ( until recently gangs of workers rolling pitch lined huge barrels around the breweries etc) because they were under Communism for so long and nothing much changed. Now that Heineken et al have got into the act there I hope they don't modernise too quickly.

Edit: yes Nick that's basically what I do as well, dough in, check temp then raise the bag clear of the element and run the urn for a few minutes (After over 100 urn brews I know how many degrees the urn raises per minute) then re-stir like buggery and lag the urn. When you were here for the brewday it was an all malt brew so just a plain old infusion.

 

[Fourstar]

you should wash before cooking it, got to remove all that talc they use to polish it (or whatever it is) just to clean it i suppose!

As for washing afterwards, well you are just decreasing your efficiency that way. if you where concerned about getting a stuck mash, you could always perform a beta glucan rest @ 40-45deg. Personally i wouldnt bother, cooked rice is already pregelatinised and converts really well with minimal lauter troubles anyway.

 

[manticle]

Ok, I`ll have a bit each way thanks. I`ll prewash the rice then cook it, leave overnight (wont sour the mash will it ) add with the grains, maybe go a little thinner with mash water i.e 4ltrs>1kg, mash low n long.
If it all goes pear shaped......look out :angry:

Thanks

Ok to put in the fridge and either add some extra hot water to bring it to ambient temp before mashing or make your strike water slightly hotter.

Having said that - current weather in melbourne in my non heated house means food that gets left on the stovetop overnight is plenty cold in the morning. I think my house is colder than the fridge.

 

[Nick JD]

As for washing afterwards, well you are just decreasing your efficiency that way.

I'm not washing it post-cook, I'm rapid cooling it. B) It's gets washed in the process.

Dirty rice is for Kao Phat.