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Using Rice In A Summer Pale Ale.

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T.D.

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Hi all,

In 2 weeks I will be brewing my Christmas Ale - a beer designed specifically with "lazing by the pool on a hot Australian summer's day" in mind. It will be light in colour, and alcohol (~4%). At the moment my recipe is as follows:

Batch Size: 27 litres
Biterness: 28 IBUs
Colour: 6.5 EBC

2kg JW Ale malt
2.5kg JW Pilsner malt
200g Carapils
25g Northern Brewer @ 60mins
25g Amarillo @ 10 mins
25g Amarillo @ flameout
WLP008 - East Coast Ale yeast

I was just reading up on the use of rice in light summer lagers. Since I am aiming for a light "sessional" summer ale with this brew, would anybody recommend using 0.5-1kg of flaked rice in place of some of the base malt? If so, will this contribute the same amount of fermentables as the malted barley? That is, if I add 1kg of flaked rice, should I simply take away 1kg of the base malt?

This is the first time I have ever even thought about actually using rice in a beer. Would anybody recommend it for the style I am going for?

Cheers :beer:
 

warrenlw63

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TD

Sounds really good. Yes, just substitute equal amounts of flaked rice or maize in lieu of the pale malt.

Probably only 1 thing I'd do would be to halve the CaraPils. :beerbang: If you're looking for a lighter body this will help.

Also if it were me I'd cut both Amarillo additions to 15g if you decide to use the rice.

Enjoy the beer.

Warren -
 

T.D.

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Thanks Warren, sounds like good advice.

I am shooting for a level of "hoppiness" similar to James Squire Golden Ale. So would you recommend cutting the additions to 15g only if I use the rice, or for both rice and all-barley options?

Thanks :beer:
 

warrenlw63

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TD

Just for the rice version. This will thin out or "mute" the body. Would probably be wise to lower the hop flavour/aroma accordingly.

Warren -
 

Zwickel

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Hello homebrewer,

@T.D.

Ive made a similar beer, supposed to be a Corona Clone, but in the end it became much better then any Corona.

What I intended to produce is similar to your idea, a blond summer-beer, light in alcohol and color.

perhaps you may fetch some infos out of my recipe to create your own ones.

what I got has been a little bit different, yes it was blond and yes it has a light color, but in the end it had 5,35%Vol. alcohol.
therefore I call it being a "Pretender"
pretends to be a light beer, but after two bottles of it .... :beerbang:

how did I brew it:

6 kg Pilsener Malt
3 kg Corn (Mais)
2 kg Rice

take the whole Rice and Corn and boil it for 20min in 20Liter of water to wash out the starch.
then add another 20Liter of cold Water and cool it to achieve around 52C.

then mash in the 6kg Pilsener malt at 52C and rest for 30minutes,
then rise the temp to 63C and rest for 90minutes (allow the enzymes to do theire work)
next rest at 72C for 45min.
go to 78 for 20min. and finish.

sparge twice with about 20Liters, means 40Liters of Water.

Now youll have approx. 72 Liter of wort.

you may add 100g Hallertauer Pearl 5% at start to boil and boil it for 90minutes.

In the end youll have around 65 Litres of Wort at SG 1048.
let me remark, that I got the same SG as I have used pure Pilsener malt.

Ferment it with low-temp-fermenting yeast (Pilsener).
the attenuation will be higher then with Pilsener, it reached down to 1008(7), therefore 5,35% alcohol.

have fun
 

T.D.

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Thanks Zwickel, certainly some interesting info there! Interesting that using rice/corn will provide a more attenuable wort (I never thought of the signature "dryness" that these ingredients add in this way - I just thought it mean a drier flavour), but that's quite important info to have since I want my brew to be relatively light in alcohol to allow plenty of consumption (may have to back off on the OG accordingly)! :chug:

Thanks again.
 

barfridge

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Asher is the king of ricey beers. His classic american pilsner is a wonderful summer beer (that is when you don't feel like getting wired on caffeine with the green tea lager).
 

johnno

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Or you can be like me that gets bad efficiency.
I am currently drinking some 2 APA's that had a low efficiency.
Cam out a nice light straw colour. Quite thin bodied at about 4% alc.
Tatse delicious. You can drink them all day.
I love those amarillo's.
and cascade.

johnno
 

warrenlw63

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Johnno.

Were you using rice or corn? :unsure:

Just wondering what caused the low efficiency.

BTW Amarillo rules the world. Got to get myself some more. :beerbang:

Warren -
 

johnno

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Hi Warren.
Nah I wasnt using rice or corn.
I think I have to work on my strike and batch temps.
Still a top drop.
 

T.D.

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Johnno,

Funny you should bring up low efficiency for your Amarillo APA - I recently brewed exactly the same type of beer and got crap efficiency as well (69% - usually get between 75 and 80%). I think its is potentially the best beer I have ever brewed! Weird how that kind of thing happens sometimes.
 

Ross

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TD, I don't think you need rice or corn in a summer ale - I just brewed this one - really spicy & refreshing, so moorish.... :chug:

Carbrook Summer Ale
Type: All Grain
Date: 17/09/2005
Batch Size: 26.00 L
Brewer: Ross
Boil Size: 37.72 L Asst Brewer:
Boil Time: 90 min Equipment: My Equipment

Ingredients

Amount Item Type % or IBU
6.20 kg Pale Malt (2 Row) UK (3.0 SRM) Grain 100.0 %
20.00 gm Horizon [12.00%] (15 min) Hops 11.8 IBU
15.00 gm Challenger [7.00%] (80 min) Hops 11.0 IBU
20.00 gm Challenger [7.00%] (15 min) Hops 6.9 IBU
10.00 gm Horizon [12.00%] (5 min) Hops 2.4 IBU
15.00 gm Challenger [7.00%] (90 min) (Mash Hop) Hops 2.2 IBU
15.00 gm Challenger [7.00%] (5 min) Hops 2.1 IBU
5.00 gm Amarillo Gold [8.50%] (5 min) Hops 0.8 IBU
20.00 gm Amarillo Gold [8.50%] (20 min) (Aroma Hop-Steep) Hops -
20.00 gm Challenger [7.00%] (20 min) (Aroma Hop-Steep) Hops -
1.00 tsp Gypsum (Calcium Sulfate) (Mash 90.0 min) Misc
1.00 tsp Table Salt (Boil 90.0 min) Misc
1 Pkgs London ESB Ale (Wyeast Labs #1968) Yeast-Ale



Beer Profile

Measured Original Gravity: 1.057 SG
Measured Final Gravity: 1.015 SG
Actual Alcohol by Vol: 5.5 %
Bitterness: 37.3 IBU Calories: 540 cal/l
Est Color: 5.1 SRM Color: Color
Mash at 65c - Batch sparge
 

T.D.

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Looks good Ross. Yeah, I think I will stick to the regular barley malt. I will cut the carapils back a bit though, as Warren recommended. I might aim for a mash temp of 65-ish degrees too.

I have noticed some of your recently posted recipes have favoured a lot of small hop additions as opposed to just a few larger additions. Have you found this to be a more even and balanced hopping technique? I have a beer tentatively planned soon which I will try and put 1g/L of hops in using each different hopping method. It will probably be all challenger (I have quite a bit a bit of it inb the freezer!). I'll do an addition for Mash Hop, FWH, Flavour (20mins), Flavour (10mins), Aroma steep, Dry Hop, and Hop Tea. Should be pretty interesting.
 

raven19

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Nothing like dragging up a four year old thread :D
I am keen to give this one a go though, and then let the missus drink it (it was at her request)! :lol:

Forgive the long post...

Questions from this post in bold:
--------------extract Zwickel's post--------------
6 kg Pilsener Malt
3 kg Corn (Mais) I am a bloke, and have never seen corn (apart from in tin cans and on the cob) for sale in Woolies. Or am I not looking in the right places. Can it be bought similar to lentils as dried in packets on the shelf? Other?
2 kg Rice plain white rice I presume?
take the whole Rice and Corn and boil it for 20min in 20Liter of water to wash out the starch.
then add another 20Liter of cold Water and cool it to achieve around 52C.
then leave the liquid and rice/corn in the kettle/mast tun?
then mash in the 6kg Pilsener malt at 52C and rest for 30minutes, add the malt to the rice/corn/water 52 deg mix?
then rise the temp to 63C and rest for 90minutes (allow the enzymes to do theire work)
next rest at 72C for 45min.
go to 78 for 20min. and finish.
sparge twice with about 20Liters, means 40Liters of Water.
Now youll have approx. 72 Liter of wort.
you may add 100g Hallertauer Pearl 5% at start to boil and boil it for 90minutes.
In the end youll have around 65 Litres of Wort at SG 1048.
let me remark, that I got the same SG as I have used pure Pilsener malt.
Ferment it with low-temp-fermenting yeast (Pilsener).
suggestions for type of yeast please?

Other questions:
can I drain off the 'wort' from the corn/rice and use that in my MT with the pilsner malt?

Then ditch the corn/rice? Or does the rice and corn have to stay in the mash?

Would like to know more about the goodness (fermentables, etc) from this rice/corn, further to this thread.

And do I need to crush the corn and rice?

Please forgive my ignorance on these ingredients outside of grain and hops...

(I just went to check Craftbrewer's site for 'flaked corn' or similar, and some clown has hacked into it. I shall PM you Ross on this now too).

Again forgive the longness of this post.
 

Zwickel

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Hello raven,

I am a bloke, and have never seen corn (apart from in tin cans and on the cob) for sale in Woolies. Or am I not looking in the right places. Can it be bought similar to lentils as dried in packets on the shelf? Other?
you may get corn as semolina, trade name "Polenta" ? Im not sure where to get it in Australia. Over here one can get a sack of corn as chicken food.
Should be crashed, but not too fine.

2 kg Rice plain white rice I presume?
yeah, plain white rice. It was the cheapest one I could get.
I used the rice uncrashed, just as it is.

then leave the liquid and rice/corn in the kettle/mast tun?
Boil the water first, then add the rice and corn, that will result in a very stiff paste/pulp, just let it simmer for a while, avoid scorching.
Add another 20l of cold water to it, so the temp will drop to 52C ( add as much cold water as it needs to get there)
then mash in the 6kg Pilsener malt at 52C and rest for 30minutes,

add the malt to the rice/corn/water 52 deg mix?

yeah, now you have everything in the mash tun.

then rise the temp to 63C and rest for 90minutes (allow the enzymes to do theire work)
next rest at 72C for 45min.
may be you have to extend the rest times a little bit to achieve iodine neutrality

suggestions for type of yeast please?
any bottom fermenting yeast should do the job, Ive used an ordinary pilsener yeast.

Other questions:
can I drain off the 'wort' from the corn/rice and use that in my MT with the pilsner malt?
No, dont do that, you need the starch that is in the grain.
Then ditch the corn/rice? Or does the rice and corn have to stay in the mash?
as Ive said

Would like to know more about the goodness (fermentables, etc) from this rice/corn, further to this thread.
as I wrote, I got as much starch out of the grain as I usually get when Im using pure malt.

I have to remark, lautering that stuff is a pain in the arse.

....and you need a sufficient stirrer :rolleyes:

have fun :)
 

Bribie G

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I regularly use 500g of polenta boiled to a mush, as an adjunct in 'golden' and UK ales. For Australian lagers likewise with 500g rice. Gives a nice smoothness and seems to produce a clearer beer, probalby uses up enzymes and proteins that would otherwise hang around and cause hazes. Polenta about two dollars for a bag at IGA, black and gold brand.
 

Zwickel

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I regularly use 500g of polenta boiled to a mush, as an adjunct in 'golden' and UK ales. For Australian lagers likewise with 500g rice. Gives a nice smoothness and seems to produce a clearer beer, probalby uses up enzymes and proteins that would otherwise hang around and cause hazes. Polenta about two dollars for a bag at IGA, black and gold brand.
yeah, thats right, the beer clears pretty well, after one week it has been cleared almost like a filtered one.

Maybe for you Aussiebrewer its a little bit hard to do step mash like I do.

So why not to brew it your normal way? for a 25l batch I could imagine, to boil 1kg polenta and 500g rice in around 8 litres of water (put the rice and corn into boiling water to avoid scorching)

Then add cold water, leave a little space for the malt, to reach 66C and add the pilsener malt, so the mash tun could be full.

Just keep the 66C until iodine test shows neutral (could take 90min ore more).

mash out.

Sparge to your desired OG.

Boil the wort for at least 60min., take a little bit aroma hops at begin of the boil.

Since the Corona beer doesnt taste after hops, not at all, it doesnt matter what kind of hops youre using, just calculate it to around 15 IBU.

Some people say, Corona contains no hops at all :p

I gotta say, I love that beer, especially in Summertime. But it is really a pretender, looks light, tastes light, but it has a lot of spin (alc).

Cheers :icon_cheers:
 

raven19

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Awesome thanks for the followup there Zwickel, greatly appreciated!

Polenta eh BribieG !!!! why didnt I think of that.

I am thinking I shall do the corn/rice mash on the stove in a big pot then move it all to the MT (esky) for the following stages.

Cant wait to try it!

Cheers!!!
 

raven19

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It took a few months, but finally followed up on Zwickel's Corona, into the no chill cubes:

Recipe: 12 Zwickel's better than Corona

Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Batch Size: 25.00 L
Boil Size: 35.42 L
Estimated OG: 1.047 SG
Estimated Color: 3.4 SRM
Estimated IBU: 18.4 IBU
Brewhouse Efficiency: 74.00 %
Boil Time: 90 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amount Item Type % or IBU
4.00 kg Pilsner (2.0 SRM) Grain 72.73 %
0.90 kg Corn, Flaked (1.3 SRM) Grain 16.36 %
0.60 kg Rice, Flaked (1.0 SRM) Grain 10.91 %
15.00 gm Styrian Goldings [4.80 %] (90 min) Hops 7.9 IBU
15.00 gm Hallertau [6.30 %] (90 min) Hops 10.4 IBU
0.47 items Whirlfloc Tablet (Boil 15.0 min) Misc
1 Pkgs Pilsen Lager (Wyeast Labs #2007) Yeast-Lager


Mash Schedule: *** Single Infusion, Medium Body
Total Grain Weight: 5.50 kg
----------------------------
*** Single Infusion, Medium Body
Step Time Name Description Step Temp
60 min Mash In Add 14.33 L of water at 74.4 C 67.8 C
10 min Mash Out Add 8.03 L of water at 91.5 C 75.6 C


Notes:
------
Low Temp Pilsner Yeast required

Mash in 2.50pm at 63 deg
Preboil 38L at 8 Brix
SG 12 Brix approx 26L
 

raven19

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Version 2 of this I made a while ago now, has been lagering and had a sampling tonight.

Zwickel's Corona Mk II
Style: German Pilsner (Pils)
TYPE: All Grain

Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Batch Size: 28.00 L
Boil Size: 37.84 L
Estimated OG: 1.042 SG
Estimated Color: 3.7 SRM
Estimated IBU: 29.3 IBU
Brewhouse Efficiency: 70.00 %
Boil Time: 75 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amount Item Type % or IBU
3.20 kg Pilsner (2.0 SRM) Grain 54.70 %
0.90 kg Corn, Flaked (1.3 SRM) Grain 15.38 %
0.80 kg Vienna (3.5 SRM) Grain 13.68 %
0.50 kg Rice, Flaked (1.0 SRM) Grain 8.55 %
0.45 kg Carapils (4.0 SRM) Grain 7.69 %

30 IBU (60 min addition only) with Czech Saaz & WP833 Yeast slurry.

mash 63


Bit of a late bitterness aftertaste on the pallette, but after lagering and filtering - not too bad for my first lager.

DSCN3680.JPG
 

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