Users Of The "no Chiller Method"

[mikem108]

My No Chill German Pils came first in AABC B)

 

[PostModern]

My No Chill German Pils came first in AABC B)

And a stand out good beer it was!

There was nothing to set it out as faulty against other beers in the category. I wonder, however, if the one beer in the flight that had noticeably too much DMS was no-chilled or just made with European Pils malt and single infusion mashed?

 

[browndog]

My No Chill German Pils came first in AABC B)

Great to hear Mike, I think the need to crash chill the wort is baloney.

cheers

Browndog

 

[bigfridge]

And a stand out good beer it was!

There was nothing to set it out as faulty against other beers in the category. ...

Ah, but just wait PoMo for the anti-NC'ers to hear of this. Such results mean nothing to them.

They will argue with such conviction that even though it came first 'in its contaminated state' - just think how perfect it could have been if it was properly chilled after the boil !

'Another fine beer ruined' they will say.

 

[braufrau]

I'm bottling my first no chill on Sunday.
And it was cooled in the kettle. Shock! Horror!

But I wont do it again because I'm not feeling the convenience factor everyone else quotes ..
so if anyone wants to sell me an immersion chiller they're not using ...

 

[Zizzle]

But I wont do it again because I'm not feeling the convenience factor everyone else quotes ..
so if anyone wants to sell me an immersion chiller they're not using ...

I'm confused, you say NC is not as convenient, but don't have a chiller.... have you tried both methods?

 

[mikelinz]

Just acquired 2 25l cubes that have had Echolab foamchlor (potasium hydroxide <10% & sodium hypochlorite <10%) so this is effectively a bleach sanitizer. Any suggestions for how to make this container clean/safe to use as a no chill vessel.

rgds mike

 

[barneyhanway]

Some more positive results for no-chill, I entered 5 beers in the SOBA New Zealand National Homebrew Competition - http://www.realbeer.co.nz/forum/viewtopic.php?p=9874#9874, results came in this morning.
Mild Ale: gold, best in class
American Brown Ale: silver, best in class
Best Bitter: silver
Best Bitter (summer bitter) bronze

I'd say that's enough justification for me at least to stick with no-chill.

 

[therook]

Some more positive results for no-chill, I entered 5 beers in the SOBA New Zealand National Homebrew Competition - http://www.realbeer.co.nz/forum/viewtopic.php?p=9874#9874, results came in this morning.
Mild Ale: gold, best in class
American Brown Ale: silver, best in class
Best Bitter: silver
Best Bitter (summer bitter) bronze

I'd say that's enough justification for me at least to stick with no-chill.

Great results Barney, just forward some of them beers to therook for further assessment

Rook

 

[braufrau]

I'm confused, you say NC is not as convenient, but don't have a chiller.... have you tried both methods?

Until the no-chill brew .. which I'm bottling tonight .. I always carried the boiling pot of wort to the laundry
to chill in an ice bath.

It wasn't a safe practice so i thought
I'd try no-chill but it just makes the brewing go on and on and on. I like to have it all over in one day.
So now I'm looking for a chiller. Maybe santa will bring me one.

 

[lucas]

Until the no-chill brew .. which I'm bottling tonight .. I always carried the boiling pot of wort to the laundry
to chill in an ice bath.

It wasn't a safe practice so i thought
I'd try no-chill but it just makes the brewing go on and on and on. I like to have it all over in one day.
So now I'm looking for a chiller. Maybe santa will bring me one.

if you put the wort into a sealed vessel, brew day ends when you tighten the lid on the vessel. (ok, so maybe it ends after you're done cleaning up ). you can forget about it until you want to pitch your yeast, which can be the next day, the next week or if you're really confident in your cleanliness and sanitation it could be months down the track.

your complaint seems to be about a non-standard variant of nochilling, one I certainly wouldnt endorse and if it were doing it that way i'd probably be just as worried as you about how long it was till I could pitch. By all means get a chiller, I'd certainly like to try one out myself; but dont keep bashing nonchill because it didnt save you any time, since you picked a method that didnt allow it to.

 

[braufrau]

chiller, I'd certainly like to try one out myself; but dont keep bashing nonchill because it didnt save you any time, since you picked a method that didnt allow it to.

I'm not bashing anything. :angry:
I simply said no chill doesnt suit me (and would any no-chillers like to sell me their now redundant chiller.
Scott kindly offered but his is too big for my kettle. )
And since saying that I have had to justify my preference over and over which makes it seem I am on some campaign.
So if there is any bashing going on it is me being bashed for preferring to have my brew day over and done with on the day.

 

[jimmyjack]

Honestly, isn't their someone who can do two exact same brews. 1 no chill and 1 chilled and then take to samples to a scientist to look under a microscope. I thought their were some science buffs here. Maybe we could put this to bed once and for all. The nc nay sayers are starting to sound a little bit like the world is flat.

Cheers, JJ

 

[braufrau]

Honestly, isn't their someone who can do two exact same brews. 1 no chill and 1 chilled and then take to samples to a scientist to look under a microscope. I thought their were some science buffs here. Maybe we could put this to bed once and for all. The nc nay sayers are starting to sound a little bit like the world is flat.

Cheers, JJ

oh no! the nay sayers would say botulism is rare and one specimin isn't enough!

What you would need to do is infect two brews with botulism and see if it survives.
Actually .. that's not a bad idea! Infect two wort samples, chill one and not the other and see what happens.

Where's a biologist to take up the no chill challenge?

 

[Stuster]

What you would need to do is infect two brews with botulism and see if it survives.
Actually .. that's not a bad idea! Infect two wort samples, chill one and not the other and see what happens.

Where's a biologist to take up the no chill challenge?

So, are you suggesting Darren should sample these and see if he can tell which one has the botulism?

 

[Darren]

So how often do you buy new fermenters? I presume the same comment could be made about any piece of brewing equioment that is used time and time again.


No procedure, even using a chiller like a counter flow is free of the risk of infection. Personally I don't have a problem with the low level of risk of no-chilling. I use fermentors not jerry cans, and feel a lot more comfortable about being able to clean and sanitise the inside of a big bucket, which I can also visually inspect, rather than the inside of a counter flow chiller.
Cheers
MAH

MAH,

Good points but what you are missing is that as "no-chill" the wort cools very slowly through the optimal ranges for many pathogenic or at least beer spoilage organisms, effectively allowing them to have multiplied significantly by the time you pitch your relatively heat-intolerant yeast. Rapidly chilling has proven to be the most effective means to produce consistency from batch-to-batch (ie. lower infection rate) for about two centuries now. Now that final myth about "no chill" no worries has been dispelled

In combination with your unbridled support for the "plastic boiler bucket of death" and "no-chill" beer as good ideas, I wonder where that Go8 education in public health came from?

cheers

Darren

 

[haysie]

your complaint seems to be about a non-standard variant of nochilling,

and now there is a standard we can all strive towards.

FFS we brew beer, if there were "standards" why would we bother?
I did n/c and now dont for reasons Braufrau threw up, each too their own, no need for a blowtorch.

 

[Maxt]

Very sorry if this has been covered before, but I thought it was important to chill lagers quickly because of the cold break?

It's obvious that people here are making good NC beers, so is the article below not true?



"Formation of Cold Break

As the clear hot wort is cooled, the previously invisible coagulum loses its solubility and precipitates. The precipitate is referred to as the cold break and begins forming at about 60C (4). The cold break mostly consists of protein-polyphenol (tannin) complexes, whereas the hot break is mostly proteinaceous. The cold break also has a higher level of carbohydrates (primarily beta-glucans) than the hot break (7). Highly modified malts yield a higher percentage of polyphenols in cold trub than do less-modified malts, while under-modified malts yield more protein and beta-glucans and relatively fewer polyphenols (1).

It is essential that the cold break be precipitated as much as possible, which is done by a very rapid cooling. The wort must be force-cooled to below 10C to secure a satisfactory break, and it precipitates best at 0 to 5C. Complete precipitation of polyphenol/proteins to achieve a brilliantly clear beer is achieved by cooling the wort until it becomes slushy. Many brewers have found that following this procedure greatly reduces the need for clarification. A long, slow cooling does not give a good cold break because more protein is trapped in suspension; this gives rise to a finer trub, chill haze, and harsh, sulfur-like aftertastes in the beer. Coarse trub is essential for good separation and good beer stability. In addition, a rapid cooling will minimize the development of dimethyl sulfide (DMS), which is more likely, to form when using lager malt. If the wort is reheated, cold trub will go back into solution, forming a chill haze."
http://www.beer-brewing.com/apex/wort_cool...k_formation.htm

 

[dr K]

I choose not to "no-chill", part of reason why I choose not to "no-chill" is that introduces, in my brewery, yet another path for possible infection, its my choice though, another part of the reason is to say "why bother".
All that aside the only major problem I can see with "no chill" where "no chill' is running very hot wort into clean food grade container sealing it and pitching yeast later is the name, as the name "no-chill" is both incorrect and importantly does not sufficiently differentiate the method from others and you want to get into a discussion about semantics I am more than up to it but not on this thread..PM me or create another .
Congratulations to our Kiwi friend..it goes to show that you are a good brewer, and a good brewer has many arrows in his/her quiver.
I have not heard too many complaints about wort kits!!

K

 

[dr K]

MaxT
I certainly had my doubts about heaven forbid "no chill" but aftermuch thought and excellent counsel I came to the conclusion "why bother" and "sounds like the language of a used car salesman"
Certainly rapid cooling is important, but the article you quote notes that to be really effective the wort needs to be chilled to sub 5C.
I will not bother with NC but the idea of fast crashing to sub 5C, pitching yeast at that temp then letting nature take its course certainly makes me think, not that I will ever try it, but it makes for some interesting discussion.


K