Users Of The "no Chiller Method"

[PostModern]

Hi Colin,

I've never had a failure with this method, so I can't help with your question about bloated cubes. I simply try and avoid the possibility of that occurring. As I've said in this and numerous other threads, it's about method.

Botulism is a risk, but a remote one if strict cleanliness is observed and the wort run into cubes as soon as the whirlpool has settled. If there are botulism spores in the wort, chillers will encounter the risk as much as no-chillers. If botulism is in the cube, you're failing in sanitation.

I have added one step to my process, which is to recirculate some wort through the tap of the kettle during the vigorous boil. This will reduce the chance of spoilage organisms inside the tap from taking hold in the wort. Also, the cubes should be inverted to heat-sanitise the lid and hollow handle immediately after the cube is sealed. The base will be sufficiently heated as the cube fills, the top of the container may not be unless this simple process is observed.

You should also make a very strong point of ensuring your listeners use HDPE or other heat-stable food grade packaging for the cube, to ensure that the container's plasticisers are not leeched into the wort.

HTH.
PoMo.

 

[Cortez The Killer]

I also run about 2 litres through the kettle tap and hose mid boil to (hopefully) flush anything through - I tip this wort back into the kettle (HSA beware!)

Also the hose stays attached to the kettle tap and the end runs back into the kettle for a good part of the boil. Needless to say the hose isn't clear anymore but a lovely green colour!

Cheers

 

[Doc]

Hey Colin,

Thanks for the great info you have provided on TBN especially on water. I've learned a lot from those episodes.

I've been using this method exclusively all year. I've lost count of how many batches I have done. Typically each batch is a concentrated boil going into 2 x 15 litre HDPE containers (which I then dilute for fermentation).
I pitched the oldest cube I had on hand last night (brewed in Feb) and all was good.
I'm meticulous about making sure the cube(s) are clean before transferring wort into them, then removing all air to minimise any other potential risk of infection. I use PSR (Chrolinated Tri-Sodium Phosphate) for cleaning the cubes.
Touch wood; I haven't had any problems so far.

Beers,
Doc

 

[PostModern]

I use PSR (Chrolinated Tri-Sodium Phosphate) for cleaning the cubes.

Ditto. PSR immediately after emptying and iodophor on brew day. I wouln't like to meet the bug that can live thru that.

 

[Doc]

Ditto. PSR immediately after emptying and iodophor on brew day. I wouln't like to meet the bug that can live thru that.

Mine get left in PSR (initially with 66decC+ hot water) for a minimum of 12 hours before being rinsed immediately prior to being filled with wort. If anything can survie the PSR, the heat of the transfer will then kill it.

Doc

 

[PostModern]

Yeah, that'll work. Darren put the fear of death into me before I started no chilling, so I figure two sanitising agents as well as heat should take care of just about everything. So far, so good

I'm not sure what Ray Mills and Scotty do. After all, they brought this method to the homebrew setting, so they'd have hundreds of brews no-chilled. I don't think either of them have had an infection? Maybe they'd like to weigh in?

 

[///]

I'm not sure what Ray Mills and Scotty do. After all, they brought this method to the homebrew setting, so they'd have hundreds of brews no-chilled. I don't think either of them have had an infection? Maybe they'd like to weigh in?

Only issue at home has been reusing a cube and chucking in the pool, cooling quickly then ending in troubled waters. Otherwise heat + time is an important factor as is good process. Simon calls it 'right first time', I call it 'clean the crapout of anything laying still and then when in doubt, chuck more caustic at it for good measure otherwise folks yell at you'...

Le Tour is on, so bon voyage and go Cadel!

Scotty

 

[Thirsty Boy]

Colin,

Thanks for following up over here. Welcome to AHB.

I've only no-chilled once, so I have bugger all experience. But mine certainly worked out well. Yeast pitched about 1.5 months after the beer was brewed.

I strongly suspect that if I had a swelled cube, I would simply put it straight down the drain without even bothering to check the taste. Whatever is causing the swelling just cant be good.

I'm still in the throws of deciding whether to swap to no-chill... mainly I suspect my rectitude is due to the fact that I have a fairly recently puchased IM chiller that cost a bloody bomb... and I have to self justify the expense.

welcome again to AHB

Thirsty

 

[Lukes]

It was barely 7 degrees last night in the brew shed so I guess I am chilling the wort !

Check out the break in this C.A.P sample (dregs) that was left overnight on the bench.

Chilled no chill :blink:

I have had a swelled cube some time ago and it was a sanitation issue and too much head room in the cube.

I have started doing what Doc mentioned and running the cubes at a higher gravity and adding water at fementation.

- Luke

 

[warrenlw63]

It was barely 7 degrees last night in the brew shed so I guess I am chilling the wort !

Check out the break in this C.A.P sample (dregs) that was left overnight on the bench.

Chilled no chill :blink:

I have had a swelled cube some time ago and it was a sanitation issue and too much head room in the cube.

I have started doing what Doc mentioned and running the cubes at a higher gravity and adding water at fementation.

- Luke

:blink: Looks like one of those drink they give you at Vietnamese restaurants Luke.

Did you use polenta? I've seen similar things when making CAPs in the bottom of glass carboys. These batches were done with a chiler at the time though.

Warren -

 

[Lukes]

Warren,
No polenta just rice and corn in a almost burnt on the stove top cereal mash and some flaked corn to get the % up.
Note to myself (next time buy more flaked corn and rice than you need).
This was the dregs of the cube when I was transferring to the fermenter.

Luke

 

[Ross]

I did up 4 fresh wort kits up for Noel when he was here, to brew on the beach in WA. One of these cubes (new) actually did swell up but he still added yeast & fermented it. Said it tasted a bit wierd, but he still drank it all, so guess it wasn't botulism :unsure: . There again I haven't heard from him in a while - YOU OK NOEL???

Cheers Ross

 

[hoppydog]

Has anyone tried no-chilling by racking hot wort straight into an HDPE food grade fermenter, and leaving it overnight to cool, before aerating and pitching yeast?

You would have to plug the airlock with something. I dont have any cubes, but I like the idea of no-chill, and I plan to try it with a fermenter.

Would the air gap be a problem? If so I could make sure to fill the HDPE fermenter, and run some of the wort into a second fermenter for the actual fermentation step.

 

[DarkFaerytale]

thats how i do it hoppy dog, straight from the kettle to the fermenter, leave overnight airate and pitch next day when it's at optimum temp. i don't have a chiller so it's the only way i can all grain brew

-Phill

 

[Ross]

Has anyone tried no-chilling by racking hot wort straight into an HDPE food grade fermenter, and leaving it overnight to cool, before aerating and pitching yeast?

You would have to plug the airlock with something. I dont have any cubes, but I like the idea of no-chill, and I plan to try it with a fermenter.

Would the air gap be a problem? If so I could make sure to fill the HDPE fermenter, and run some of the wort into a second fermenter for the actual fermentation step.

Hi hoppydog,

Exactly the way i do it - just leave the airlock out, I put a plastic bottle cap over the grommet to stop anything crawling in.

cheers ross

 

[PostModern]

Only issue at home has been reusing a cube and chucking in the pool, cooling quickly then ending in troubled waters. Otherwise heat + time is an important factor as is good process.

Yeah, rapid chilling and not immediately pitching seems to be a recipe for disaster.

I'm still in the throws of deciding whether to swap to no-chill... mainly I suspect my rectitude is due to the fact that I have a fairly recently puchased IM chiller that cost a bloody bomb... and I have to self justify the expense.

No reason you can't do both. Would be great for double brew days with only one free fermenter. No-chill the first into a cube then do a regular chiller batch into a fermenter.

Check out the break in this C.A.P sample (dregs) that was left overnight on the bench.

Chilled no chill :blink:

Cold break still forms when chilling no-chill.

Has anyone tried no-chilling by racking hot wort straight into an HDPE food grade fermenter, and leaving it overnight to cool, before aerating and pitching yeast?

Yeah. I did this when I brewed at a mate's place once before I got my stock of cubes. The beer turned out great (pKoelsch).

 

[barneyhanway]

I'd like to welcome Colin too, love your spots on the BN - very informative, THANKYOU!

Hoppydog, I go from kettle to fermenter overnight, then pitch. No issues so far. I fill the airlock with cool boiled water, some inevitably gets sucks back in as a function of the cooling wort. Hasn't been an infection issue for me but there is a risk, you should decide whether or not that risk is acceptable to you.

As far as I've been able to tell it does get around the concern of botulism, as the toxin can't survive in an aerobic environment, Colin you might be able to lend some expertise there?

 

[Adamt]

Has anyone tried no-chilling by racking hot wort straight into an HDPE food grade fermenter, and leaving it overnight to cool, before aerating and pitching yeast?

You would have to plug the airlock with something. I dont have any cubes, but I like the idea of no-chill, and I plan to try it with a fermenter.

Would the air gap be a problem? If so I could make sure to fill the HDPE fermenter, and run some of the wort into a second fermenter for the actual fermentation step.

Instead of doing this, I just leave it in the kettle with the lid on, saves the hassle of transferring boiling hot wort. I just spray the inside of the pot and lid with orthophosphoric acid. Cools quicker in the pot anyway

 

[SpillsMostOfIt]

I fill the airlock with cool boiled water, some inevitably gets sucks back in as a function of the cooling wort. Hasn't been an infection issue for me but there is a risk, you should decide whether or not that risk is acceptable to you.

If infection from Suck Back (tm) was a concern, you could use a sterile air filter in place of the airlock such as two-thirds of the site sponsors sell. That way, you get gas transfer in both directions, but no passage of nasties.

 

[user 1153]

Has anyone tried no-chilling by racking hot wort straight into an HDPE food grade fermenter, and leaving it overnight to cool, before aerating and pitching yeast?

You would have to plug the airlock with something.

Ditto to what others have said. This is my method of chilling.

I soak a cloth in a Prox solution and drape it over the airlock hole.