Users Of The "no Chiller Method"

[Duff]

Undid the hop bag through the hole and pulled the flowers out a couple at a time.

A real exercise in patience :lol:

 

[Doc]

the bags swollen that big because it sucked up all the wort. You can see the inside of the tap outlet in the bottom of the fermenter in the top pic :lol:

hahah, yeah that was the other downside. Losing a litre of so of wort to the hops.

Doc

 

[blackbock]

Any lager brewers that use no chill?

Yes! I would say it's a goer for most styles, with the possible exception of some Pilsners- I always seem to detect very faint DMS whenever I try to do them with NC.

 

[Cortez The Killer]

What type of malts are you using?

Cheers

 

[PostModern]

What's wrong with faint DMS in a Pilsner?

 

[blackbock]

That depends on what you call faint.
Personally I hate DMS. I'd rather avoid it and concentrate on the hop aromas.

Malts I have tried include JW, BB Galaxy, Powells. But I put it down to other things than the malt brand.

 

[braufrau]

Well, this is my only concern. You can't kill anyone with the traditional method of making beer because (so far) no organisms that are pathogenic can survive the process. Here is my worst case thoughts. You take your wort and put it into a cube that has botulism spores in it. Now if the pH is 5.2 then it should kill the spores. However if you are using very alkaline water and only pale malts and you don't adjust your water with Ca, Mg or acid then you might have a wort pH of 5.8 or higher.

I have been able to find a paper about pH and botulism and the pH of 5.5 kills pretty much any variety. However some rare variety's can survive at 5.5. This particular variety was found in a Australian coastal town.

Now when the wort comes from the boil it is for all intents and purposes of the discussion anaerobic. The is simply not enough O2 to kill botulism. Then as it cools you will get to the optimum temperature to culture the spores. Remember, the yeast lower the pH further and kill the botulism (or it should) so once it is pitched you only have to worry about the poison of the cells that happened to grow.

This is pretty much everything I know.

Thank you everyone for the kind words! I hope to do some more BN shows soon but I am not on the schedule yet.

Yesterday I started exploring the no chill concept, suddenly realising it would allow me to do bigger boils without buying/making a wort chiller.
The botulism thingy was bothering me too. The "I'm not dead yet" argument doesn't cut it with me.
So I did some googling and realised I'd forgotten about the antimicrobial action of hops.
study
patent

Sorry if this has already been pointed out, but I couldn't wade through 57 pages of history.

 

[tangent]

i've done 2x no-chills
the 1st one, the cube melted
the 2nd one, after a few weeks the wort turned itself into vinegar

i'm sticking to chilling and pitching yeast from now on.

 

[SpillsMostOfIt]

It's clearly not for everyone. As a thirty-plus brew veteran yet to purchase, use or even touch a chiller, it kinda works for me.

The thing about brewing is that you can pick and choose all the techniques, equipments and ingredients you want/need/desire and have some fun at the expense of those who choose another method - in this case, brewers who are depleting the world's copper resources!

 

[braufrau]

i've done 2x no-chills
the 1st one, the cube melted
the 2nd one, after a few weeks the wort turned itself into vinegar

i'm sticking to chilling and pitching yeast from now on.

Ahhh ... but what if I were to say that no chill would allow me to do some moderate gravity AG??
Then what would be your advice?

 

[Gerard_M]

The botulism thingy was bothering me too. The "I'm not dead yet" argument doesn't cut it with me.

6000 casks filled & sold in under a year.
No dramas.

Cheers
Gerard

 

[Pumpy]

i've done 2x no-chills
the 1st one, the cube melted
the 2nd one, after a few weeks the wort turned itself into vinegar

i'm sticking to chilling and pitching yeast from now on.

Tangent ,

I did not think you were a 'Luddite' and was against change

20 batches now and no problem

90C is fine to NC the flexibility it offers is fantastic to the home brewer .

Pumpy

 

[oldbugman]

Anyone got an idea of the lifespan of a wort in a cube which is sealed up good and proper?

 

[braufrau]

6000 casks filled & sold in under a year.
No dramas.

Cheers
Gerard

Yeah but ... botulism is actually a very rare bacteria ... but you just need it once not to have to worry about it anymore ...

but I think its a moot point now. If the wort didn't have hops in it, you should be worried.

Someone used a jam analogy further back in this thread, which isn't a great analogy since jam is acidic but a lot of jam makers don't
properly pasteurise their product. My mother in law being one and she has used the very same "ooh I've made 1000s of jars" argument too.
My grandmother inlaw is sensitive to pennicilin and became very ill after eating some improperly prepared jam.
That was really bad luck because not all species of pennicillin make the antibiotic and I'm sure the lady who made the jam had made 1000s of jars
and no one got sick!

Another example is you can sometimes spot a pregnant woman at a dinner party before she "shows" because she avoids the wine and brie.
Listeria is another uncommon bacteria that sometimes has devastating effects. Although its uncommon, most pregnant women don't take the chance.
And BTW - Listeria is knocked out by hops too.

Well my point is ... its almost certainly safe because of the hops but 1000s of no chill beer is not proof.

 

[tangent]

Pumpy, to me that's 100% failure with one technique vs. 100% success with another.
obviously I'm doing something wrong in one instance and Ok in another.
i'll stick with beer vs. vinegar

 

[bindi]

40 plus no chill and not ONE dud, and I make beer!!!!! not vinegar, What are you Guys doing wrong? :huh:
And BIG beers they are.

 

[big d]

Sorry to say it Braufrau but its looking as if you will have to give up making beer.Just to be on the safe side of course.

Cheers in nc
Big D

 

[warrenlw63]

Yeah but ... botulism is actually a very rare bacteria ... but you just need it once not to have to worry about it anymore ...

BF I'm hoping you're not Darren in drag by some chance? :lol:

Warren -

 

[PostModern]

Anyone got an idea of the lifespan of a wort in a cube which is sealed up good and proper?

I think Ray Mills posted earlier in this thread that he'd gone > 6 months.

I brewed like a maniac in January this year and was fermenting the wort as late as May with no problems.

 

[mikelinz]

But surly the whole point with no chill is that your are putting a heat pasturised liquid into a sealed container that is being heat pasturised by the heat in the liquid. So there can be no living nasties in the container until you open it after it has cooled down (assuming 1 sufficient heat to start with & 2 an air tight container.

rgds mike