Users Of The "no Chiller Method"

[deebee]

No-one has satisfactorily established that the conditions in a no-chill cube will suit botulinum growth either. HDPE vessels are gas permeable so there is going to be O2 ingress.

Indeedy. I should have added to my post, "But many, like me, have taken the time to read the arguments to and fro and have decided to take a calculated risk, if it really is one, and brew no chill."

I really do wonder how much O2 gets in though. For instance I wouldn't ever pitch yeast into it without aerating. And we don't know how much or how little O2 will render the conditions unsuitable for botulinum.

Still. I don't wonder about it that much.


DB

 

[PostModern]

Hey Luke

Just out of curiousity when you fill your cubes do you sit them on their sides for 30 minutes or so to let the liquid sanitize the handle? I think I remeber Bigfridge saying that this is NNL's preferred method when filling their fresh wort kits.

What I usually do is fill the cubes and leave them on the side for a couple of hours. I just rotate every 30 minutes. After then I stand them upright until I'm ready to use them.

Just to be safe I also hot water and napisan the cubes after emptying the wort. On brew day I fill them with 5ml of iodophor and 5 litres of water and shake the crap out of them to get some good sanitizer contact.

I'd like to think I treat the cubes in the same way as a fermenter in terms of cleanliness regardless of the hot wort pasteurizing them.

I've now done 20 no chill batches thus far. Being 42 litre batches that accounts to 40 cubes. None have gone manky on me yet (touch wood). h34r:

Warren -

That is exactly the same process I use. Is it a case of great minds or...?

Make that three, but I alternate the Napisan with PSR. Those who haven't succeeded with NC will have done something different in their process or used a non-suitable container, I think.

I just posted yesterday saying "hey guys the botulism debate is over because hop oil kills botulism" and posted a couple of links and happened
to mention that without the hops you'd be taking your life in your hands I'm now the wicked witch of the anti no chill brigade.

I think Darren poo-pooed the hops protection thing. Something about hop dilution in beer being too weak or something???

 

[warrenlw63]

Is it a case of great minds or...?

Paranoid old molls?

Warren -

 

[oldbugman]

I'll give you a sample on Saturday @ the brew day.

It's more like a brew 1/2 day.

 

[Gerard_M]

By way of example, we have repeatedly failed to show that electromagnetic radiation from outer space comes from an intelligent life form (as far as I know), but this doesn't mean we have proved the non-existence of extra-terrestrial beings.

Not that I am taking sides on the point of substance here, just pointing out this little point of logic. For what it is worth I am, out of necessity, a practitioner of NCNC... no-cube no-chill.

Steve
Are you trying to tell us that you believe in the no-chill method, but you don't believe in life in outer space??

Cheers
Gerard

 

[Kai]

Indeedy. I should have added to my post, "But many, like me, have taken the time to read the arguments to and fro and have decided to take a calculated risk, if it really is one, and brew no chill."

I really do wonder how much O2 gets in though. For instance I wouldn't ever pitch yeast into it without aerating. And we don't know how much or how little O2 will render the conditions unsuitable for botulinum.

Still. I don't wonder about it that much.
DB

I agree completely.

 

[Lukes]

Hey Luke

Just out of curiousity when you fill your cubes do you sit them on their sides for 30 minutes or so to let the liquid sanitize the handle? I think I remeber Bigfridge saying that this is NNL's preferred method when filling their fresh wort kits.
What I usually do is fill the cubes and leave them on the side for a couple of hours. I just rotate every 30 minutes. After then I stand them upright until I'm ready to use them.
Just to be safe I also hot water and napisan the cubes after emptying the wort. On brew day I fill them with 5ml of iodophor and 5 litres of water and shake the crap out of them to get some good sanitizer contact.
I'd like to think I treat the cubes in the same way as a fermenter in terms of cleanliness regardless of the hot wort pasteurizing them.
I've now done 20 no chill batches thus far. Being 42 litre batches that accounts to 40 cubes. None have gone manky on me yet (touch wood). h34r:
Warren -

I give them a rinse then a bit of hot water & nappy sam overnight, rinse and chuck a campten tab in there with a bit of water seal up until needed again.
Then just a quick rinse with sanitizer (using the Hersil/Hysan stuff from the bulk buy)
I too turn them so all inner surface including the handle touch the hot wort.
I now make the batch size suit the cube volumes and at a few higher points.
I also picked up a cube spanner from G&G a few weeks ago so you can really get the lid on tight.

- Luke

 

[SpillsMostOfIt]

Having cleaned them with Percarbonate, I usually give my cubes a dose of either Iodophor or Herlisil FP before storing and then again immediately before use. I try to squeeze as much air out of them as possible and ensure all surfaces have been warmed by the hot liquid.

Over the past, a few people have discussed hop flavour/aroma issues. Is cube-hopping the current agreed best solution?

 

[warrenlw63]

I also picked up a cube spanner from G&G a few weeks ago so you can really get the lid on tight.

- Luke

:lol: Great minds. Was in there Saturday morning and saw a box full of the cube spanners for $2.50 a piece. First thing I grabbed.

No more opening cubes with a rag or doing a G-clamp up on the lid and turning. :icon_cheers:

Warren -

 

[therook]

:lol: Great minds. Was in there Saturday morning and saw a box full of the cube spanners for $2.50 a piece. First thing I grabbed.

No more opening cubes with a rag or doing a G-clamp up on the lid and turning. :icon_cheers:

Warren -

So your grip isn't the same as when you were youger Wazza

Rook

 

[warrenlw63]

So your grip isn't the same as when you were youger Wazza

Rook

:lol: :lol:

Warren -

 

[PostModern]

Over the past, a few people have discussed hop flavour/aroma issues. Is cube-hopping the current agreed best solution?

I've taken to whirlpool hopping. After flameout, the wort still has convection circulation going on. You can see the hot break floating around. I lid the kettle and wait about 5 mins for this to stop. I then chuck in pellets and whirlpool as normal. Nice pile of break and hop debris left in the kettle and a strong aroma coming off the wort.

I have a pale ale with just two additions (12g Warrior bittering and 20g Nelson Sauvin aroma) sitting in a cube atm. Will report back at how effective this is when it's kegged. It wouldn't be fair to say the 135g flameout hop monster I just finished had a distinct hop aroma would it?

 

[Hutch]

I give them a rinse then a bit of hot water & nappy sam overnight, rinse and chuck a campten tab in there with a bit of water seal up until needed again.
Then just a quick rinse with sanitizer (using the Hersil/Hysan stuff from the bulk buy)

- Luke

I'm interested to know how others store their cubes while not in use.
After emptying the no-chill cube contents, I give it a thorough clean with Sodium Percarbonate and boiling water, and a few rinses with hot water. This leaves them pretty-much sparkling clean.I then just leave them upside-down with lids off until ready to use next time, when I give them a good soak with phosphoric Acid-based sanitiser.

This is all fine, however I'm curious whether their is a suitable sanitary solution to leave in the cubes when in storage, with the lid firmly sealed, that will prevent any mould/bacteria growth, or other nasties setting up home (spiders, cockroaches, etc.).
I previously left nappysan solution in a few cubes for several months, which resulted in a putrid smell that could not be removed from the plastic. I'm hesitent to use bleach for similar reasons, and becasue I beleive it does not have a long shelf life when diluted down.
Lukes mentions Campden tabs in water. Does anybody else have a recommended long-term sanitary solution?

Hutch.

 

[drsmurto]

Surely if you used a no rinse sanitiser and then sealed it up you would have no problems?

 

[therook]

all i have done for years is wash out we Napisan and then soak over night in napisan, rinse out until ready to use.

prior to using i then Iodophor the cube

Rook

 

[Hutch]

Surely if you used a no rinse sanitiser and then sealed it up you would have no problems?

That's what I'm thinking - maybe the phosphoric acid would be ideal for long-term storage, as it doesn't break down (as far as I know), is a very strong no-rinse acid, and it doesn't impart an objectionable smell.
(I guess if it's not a problem in a sealed can of CocaCola, then it's good enough in a sealed NC cube, huh?)

 

[drsmurto]

That's what I'm thinking - maybe the phosphoric acid would be ideal for long-term storage, as it doesn't break down (as far as I know), is a very strong no-rinse acid, and it doesn't impart an objectionable smell.
(I guess if it's not a problem in a sealed can of CocaCola, then it's good enough in a sealed NC cube, huh?!

Sorry Hutch - i was implying that you rinse the cube with it, drain it and then seal it. The small amount left over should be ok but you would then need to repeat prior to use.

I leave napisan in mine for the few weeks inbetween use and then hit it with one-shot just before using

 

[Stuster]

I think as long as you are cleaning it thoroughly, then ensuring it is dry before putting it away, there is very little chance of any mould developing on it, or of any creatures setting up home in it. Mould is unlikely to develop if there's no food/water there. Just give it a quick rinse, a no-rinse sanitiser and away you go.

At least, that is how I store mine (dry) and I've yet to have a problem with it.

 

[Lukes]

I cannot lay claim as it was not my idea.
As always someone here suggested it.
It work's for me.

BTW: they don't stay empty for long.

- Luke

 

[Duff]

After dumping into fermenter, rinse with hot water until clean, fill with non scented bleach solution. Expel air and leave full in dark location until ready to use next.

Open 15 minutes before filling on brew day, tip out bleach solution, rinse with hot water 2 - 3 times. Fill with hot wort. Expel air.

Gone this way for 18 months now with the same cubes, no problems.