Users Of The "no Chiller Method"

[devo]

I guess you could always run your no chilled wort into glass carboys if your still worried about it.

 

[Ross]

Is it ok to no-chill in the kettle and then transfer to the fermenter in the morning?

Sorry if it's been asked already, but 50 pages is a bit of reading to wade through to find an answer.

What I was thinking, was just leaving the hot wort in the kettle, covered and with the hop sock taken out after the boil.

Yes you can, but very risky, unless you are happy that you can keep free of any airbourne nasties....

cheers Ross

 

[NRB]

I guess you could always run your no chilled wort into glass carboys if your still worried about it.

Are glass carboys Pyrex? I would be concerned about the thermal shock of boiling liquid into cold glassware; shattered/fractured glass would be more than likely if not Pyrex.

Is it ok to no-chill in the kettle and then transfer to the fermenter in the morning?

Sorry if it's been asked already, but 50 pages is a bit of reading to wade through to find an answer.

What I was thinking, was just leaving the hot wort in the kettle, covered and with the hop sock taken out after the boil.

If you could seal your kettle with a rubber "washer" under the lid, as the wort cools it will create a vacuum and seal just as if it were in a cube.

[edit = changed "work" to "wort", dunno what I was typing!]

 

[SpillsMostOfIt]

Are glass carboys Pyrex? I would be concerned about the thermal shock of boiling liquid into cold glassware; shattered/fractured glass would be more than likely if not Pyrex.
If you could seal your kettle with a rubber "washer" under the lid, as the work cools it will create a vacuum and seal just as if it were in a cube.

... or go a bit nuts with some cling film, perhaps?

 

[Fingerlickin_B]

Currently have two brews in cubes after the weekend.

They were filled to a point where there was almost no headspace at all and since cooling there is now NO air in them at all, not a single little bubble...even the handles are 100% full of wort :blink:

Where would the air go? Has it been absorbed into the wort? :huh:

I've previously used "20 litre" plastic jerry cans from Bunnings, but this time reduced the amount of sparge water (for a smaller boil volume) and used ND wort kit cubes which were shaped better for this purpose, hence being able to get a smaller headspace than before (smaller handle, flat top, position of lid, only one lid, etc).

Still, no air at all has got me worried...there is an unopened ND Norwest Pale Ale wort cube sitting not 2 metres away from me and it's got quite a bit (maybe half a litre) of air/headspace in it

PZ.

 

[browndog]

Currently have two brews in cubes after the weekend.

They were filled to a point where there was almost no headspace at all and since cooling there is now NO air in them at all, not a single little bubble...even the handles are 100% full of wort :blink:

Where would the air go? Has it been absorbed into the wort? :huh:

I've previously used "20 litre" plastic jerry cans from Bunnings, but this time reduced the amount of sparge water (for a smaller boil volume) and used ND wort kit cubes which were shaped better for this purpose, hence being able to get a smaller headspace than before (smaller handle, flat top, position of lid, only one lid, etc).

Still, no air at all has got me worried...there is an unopened ND Norwest Pale Ale wort cube sitting not 2 metres away from me and it's got quite a bit (maybe half a litre) of air/headspace in it

PZ.

Where would the air go? The only answer I can see to this is that there was no air in the cube to begin with. There was however, steam. Proper steam is water in gaseous form. When this steam cooled and condensed back into liquid the void was removed and liquid filled the entire container. Hopefully some of the physics gurus can confirm or refute this theory.

cheers

Browndog

 

[mobrien]

Browndog, you have it right I believe but there is one extra thing. Let me explain.

There is a large amount of steam that displaces the air, depending how close to boiling the wort is. If you don't believe this, here is neat demonstration I do for my year 12 chem students.

Take a coke can (or other type of beverage - its just the can we are after). Rinse it out and put about a tablespoon of water in it. Now put it on a hotplate until the water is boiling and steam is coming out the top.

Whilst you are waiting for this, get an ice cream container and half fill it with water and ice.

Now (and you have to do this quickly) - take the can off the hotplate with some tongs, INVERT it, and all at once plunge it into the ice mixture.

You will see what how much "air" you loose as the steam condenses back into water.

Lots of fun... but...

There will still be some air in the can - and I suspect there would also be still some in the cube.

Thats where effect number two comes in. Solubility of gas DECREASES with increasing temperature. Or, conversely, more gas will dissolve into a liquid as the temperature decreases.

So, any remaining air in the cube (assuming it is airtight) could be being dissolved into the wort as the temperature decreases. We all know how much CO2 can dissolve into the fermented wort, so 10-100mL of air or so isn't a stretch.

So in summary - I think its a combination of both - the steam turning back into water and hence reducing in volume (by a heck of a lot) and any left over air dissolving into the wort as the temp decreases.

Just my explanation I have been wrong before.

M

 

[Adamt]

Just a question to ponder on:

How much air/Oxygen can be present in wort before oxidation spoilage occurs?

Unless youre brewing in an oxygen free environment, its inevitable at some stage in the mashing/boiling process that oxygen will dissolve in the wort.



Regards to FLB's scenario:

Steam condensing/air dissolving will lower the pressure in the container. My money is on the fact that the container has sucked in to accomodate the lower volume of liquid. Once you crack the lid, the container will push out and create an airspace similar to that when you filled it.

 

[crozdog]

I guess you could always run your no chilled wort into glass carboys if your still worried about it.

I'd like to see someone trying to squeeze in the sides of a carboy to expel the additional air. h34r: B)

 

[KillerRx4]

Just a question to ponder on:

How much air/Oxygen can be present in wort before oxidation spoilage occurs?

Unless youre brewing in an oxygen free environment, its inevitable at some stage in the mashing/boiling process that oxygen will dissolve in the wort.

This is something Im having trouble understanding. Mainly re HSA.

Especially since I purposely oxygenate before pitching yeast why is there supposedly issues with oxygenation in the mash/boil process?

 

[Guest Lurker]

This is something Im having trouble understanding. Mainly re HSA.

Especially since I purposely oxygenate before pitching yeast why is there supposedly issues with oxygenation in the mash/boil process?

The H stands for hot.

The rate of chemical reactions can be strongly controlled by temperature. Hot wort plus oxygen = oxidation. Cold wort plus oxygen = oxygen dissolved in the wort, but not bound by chemical reactions.

 

[Fingerlickin_B]

Well, I got concerned and tipped over the cubes to check.

The air was under the lidsnot in the handles, which are the highest point :blink:

 

[jimmyjack]

The rate of chemical reactions can be strongly controlled by temperature. Hot wort plus oxygen = oxidation. Cold wort plus oxygen = oxygen dissolved in the wort, but not bound by chemical reactions.

Honestly I think HSA is not an issue when brewing small scale. I have lifted and poured hot wort from a height into a fermenter when I brewed a cap with Saaz B flowers that kept getting clogged in my drain tube and siphon. No off flavours that I could detect. The wierd thing was when I chilled it down to pitching temp and pitched the yeats the bubbler starting goin off within 10 minutes.


Cheers, JJ

 

[bennyc]

Hello all,

I'm thinking about using a cube for a brew this weekend and just wanted to get the basics right (along with a few questions!)...

1. After flame-out, should I whirlpool the wort and let the trub etc settle out before pouring into the cube? Or just pour the whole lot in and let the trub settle out as the wort cools?

2. Should I pour the wort into the cube straight out of the kettle or through the tap of the kettle. i.e. is oxidation an issue with pouring hot wort into the cube? Is there any special method of doing this?

3. And then I squeeze, seal and let her cool, right?

Apologies if answers are buried in the posts, but I've had a look and there are a lot of posts :huh:

Thanks

Ben

 

[Bobby]

I don't bother whirlpooling - I just empty the kettle into the cube via hose.
Use a hose, don't just pour it straight from the tap into the cube.

 

[DJR]

I whirlpool - chuck in the whirlfloc at 10mins left till flameout, then after flameout give it a good stir and leave it for 10mins or so, then it has a nice trub cone that i leave out of the cube. A bit of trub still ends up in the wort though after it's cooled.

 

[Stuster]

Ditto to DJR's method. And as Bobby said, use some hose to avoid splashing the wort into the cube.

 

[Cortez The Killer]

1) I found that most of the break material dropped down to the bottom middle of my kettle (when i used 1/2 a tab of whirlfloc @ 10 mins) - even though I'd bashed in the base - I didn't whirlpool or anything, any break material you do pick up will drop out in the cube / fermenter anyway

2) Oxidisation is an issue - you need a hose - normal garden fittings should fit onto your ball valve / tap

I usually tip the wort (after it's cooled) into the fermenter to aerate it

3) Give it a good sqeeze - but don't worry about getting every little bit out - just don't shake / move the cube much until it has cooled

Cheers

 

[PostModern]

HSA is only a big concern for long term shelf-life. As keen brewers, I guess most of us are keen beer drinkers, so by the time the effects of HSA are seen, the beer will be well gone.

I tip the cube upside down immediately after filling to let the hot goodness kill off any potential bugs in the lid and handle area. Once it's cooled, I store it right side up. Haven't had any ballooning cubes yet, even using Ray's dodgy oversized cube fitted with a snap-tap!!!

 

[bennyc]

Thanks all, that cleared things up nice and simply

I'll get myself a cube and some tubing and be on my way!