Users Of The "no Chiller Method"

[SpillsMostOfIt]

Apologies if this seems like a silly question.

I'm no-chilling into 20litre Willow jerries which seem to hold closer to 24litres. I'm aiming for 23litre batches, which gives me either one litre of air I get to squeeeeeze out or an extra litre of wort which may get discarded with the break material and hops I failed to keep out.

Or... I could use that extra bit for a starter. In this way, the medium for the starter is well-matched to the wort the starter is introduced to, so there is one less vector for Yeast Shock. If I am sanitary enough, I can heave the wort into the fermenter and seal for the time it takes the starter to... well... start.

Does this seem sensible? Or is it common practice?

Cheers.

 

[Cortez The Killer]

Sounds like a go-er!

Cheers

 

[Stuster]

I don't see much advantage in doing that. The yeast should grow pretty much as fast in your full 23L as in your starter. Meanwhile, however sanitary you try to be, there's no guarantee something isn't growing in your wort. :unsure:

If you want to use that 1L why not just bottle it in a plastic coke/juice bottle and put it in the freezer. Then you can pull it out a couple of days before you want to brew, defrost, boil it for 10 minutes, cool, and use that for your starter. Then your starter gets a couple of days to get going and you can pitch it straight away. :super:

 

[SpillsMostOfIt]

I don't see much advantage in doing that. The yeast should grow pretty much as fast in your full 23L as in your starter. Meanwhile, however sanitary you try to be, there's no guarantee something isn't growing in your wort. :unsure:

If you want to use that 1L why not just bottle it in a plastic coke/juice bottle and put it in the freezer. Then you can pull it out a couple of days before you want to brew, defrost, boil it for 10 minutes, cool, and use that for your starter. Then your starter gets a couple of days to get going and you can pitch it straight away. :super:

Thanks for the reply.

I am assuming that you are not advocating not using a starter (pardon the double negative - I couldn't squeeze a third in there).

I've just finished re-reading the Maltose Falcons' yeast article linked to from somewhere here and it said to me that using starter material close to the final brew (assuming the SG is not too high) would be a good idea and that getting as much yeast growth outside of my wort as I can would reduce the number of vectors for introducing 'unwanted flavours'.

I guess I could go from kettle to coke bottle and freeze (and squeeze the jerry) - this doesn't cause me any grief. My intent was to be as supportive of my yeasties as possible by not providing them with too many surprises. A few more days in the no-chill jerry probably doesn't make a difference one way or another once the wort is in there.

 

[Stuster]

No, you are not wrong about the non-disagreement about starters.

Or rather, starters are good. Squeezing the cube is fine. Crozdog's method made it easier for me. Just prop the cube against a step and push gently on the upper face (if that makes sense :unsure: ). Less chance of burning yourself that way I think.

If you want to get the brew going ASAP just leave out 1L in the coke bottle. Cool it some water in the sink. As soon as it's cool, pitch the yeast and your starter should be ready by the time your jerry can is cool.

In fact, from most other reading, 1040 wort or less is best. So you could dilute the 1L starter with some cooled, pre-boiled water. That would also reduce the temp of that wort even quicker.

 

[SpillsMostOfIt]

It's not so much a matter of getting things going ASAP. I brew quicker than I can ferment, so the jerry farm forms a buffer between kettle and fridge - one jerry I have in storage has been there for around three weeks. It's primarily about yeast performance.

I'm definitely a squeezer. With wort containers, I tend to use my knee and a wall. I haven't felt the need for knee-pads yet. The traditional jerry-can shape is easier to squeeze than a strict cube.

 

[Stuster]

I have the same problem as you. Too much brewing, not enough fermenting.

In that case, I'd definitely recommend doing a starter with wort you save separately. Then pitch into the main wort when the yeast are ready. To me this is a big advantage of the no-chill method.

Alternatively, you can use slurry from previous batches. Again, since you can pitch when you want, it becomes easy to coordinate this. Save a jar of slurry. Clean out the fermenter. Sanitise. Pour in wort. Pitch yeast. Fermenter turn around of a few minutes. :super:

BTW, a few weeks or even months should be fine in the cube. After all, the commercial wort kits are not always fresh.

 

[SpillsMostOfIt]

To me this is a big advantage of the no-chill method.

Absolutely! The flexibility of the system is magic - and helps maintain Maximum Fermenter Utilisation.

After all, the commercial wort kits are not always fresh.

This is why I have only ever bought (Artisanale) Fresh Wort Kits. There is an implicit guarantee in the name... :blink:

 

[domonsura]

Ahem!!

We must have been the only ones who didn't read the little 5pt caveat on the side of the Weyermann Pils malt bag NM.

It says (my translation may be rusty). Ein it is verboden iz das Helmet Heads uzen the no chiller method for ein Pilsner malz ein swchweinbratenpigballs. :lol:
Warren -

:lol:
Laughing too hard to think of anything genuinely clever to say....swchweinbratenpigballs :lol: :lol:


edit: Have now realised that the post I've quoted is old history......oops

 

[crozdog]

Crozdog's method made it easier for me.

Cool. We now have not only the Ross method of forced carbonation but now the Crozdog method cube squeezing!

I'm famous at last!! :excl: B) :beerbang:

Thanks Stu LOL.

 

[Kai]

I don't see much advantage in doing that. The yeast should grow pretty much as fast in your full 23L as in your starter. Meanwhile, however sanitary you try to be, there's no guarantee something isn't growing in your wort. :unsure:

If you want to use that 1L why not just bottle it in a plastic coke/juice bottle and put it in the freezer. Then you can pull it out a couple of days before you want to brew, defrost, boil it for 10 minutes, cool, and use that for your starter. Then your starter gets a couple of days to get going and you can pitch it straight away. :super:

I use the last wort out of my kettle to fire up my pre-existing starter. Once I have collected all my wort into the jerry, I tip the dregs from the kettle into a flagon. I chill this rapidly and allow it to settle, then tip a litre or so of that wort onto a pre-prepared starter of around 3-400mL (usually made from DME). By the time the main wort is cooled to pitching temp that stepped startrer is usually going great guns.

 

[Ross]

Only beer i had clarity issues with was one with lots of MO, but from what i hear MO has a built-in chill haze direct from the factory, that can't be removed anyway.

Polyclar removes it easily.

cheers Ross

 

[Guest Lurker]

Polyclar removes it easily.

cheers Ross

Whereas improving your brewing techniques prevents it happening in the first place!

 

[Ross]

Whereas improving your brewing techniques prevents it happening in the first place!

What improvements do you suggest? I've tried protien rests & always do a hard rolling boil for 90 mins, with Koppafloc added at 5 mins - Maybe you could enlighten

cheers Ross

 

[SpillsMostOfIt]

My sample space is huge - five AG brews.

I've always used Irish Moss, but sometimes get clear, sometimes don't get clear. The only thing I've been able to pin it down to is the presence of Pilsener malt in the grist. When present, I get cloud. When absent, I do not.

I would happily accept that I have done something else different between these brews (in fact, I would welcome it), but for me right now, the *cough* 'evidence' is stacking up against JWM Pilsener.

I'd be grateful of a technique-oriented explanation as I am slowly wending towards a lager beer.

 

[Darren]

What improvements do you suggest? I've tried protien rests & always do a hard rolling boil for 90 mins, with Koppafloc added at 5 mins - Maybe you could enlighten

cheers Ross

Ross,

Water composition and mash pH do make differences to clarity but chilling of an ale made with English malts is just wrong

Polyclar removes chill haze. If you have chill haze you are serving your English ale too cold.

cheers

Darren

 

[Ross]

Ross,

Water composition and mash pH do make differences to clarity but chilling of an ale made with English malts is just wrong

Polyclar removes chill haze. If you have chill haze you are serving your English ale too cold.

cheers

Darren

Couldn't agree more, but i use MO in more than English bitters. I use tank water with a perfect PH for brewing light beers & it's only the MO that throws a chill haze. So still hoping GL will enlighten us....

cheers Ross

 

[Batz]

I had a sack of malt once,it was either Maltcraft or JW as that was all I could get.
Anyway it made very cloudy beers,taste was ok but there was no way I could make a clear beer with it,I don't know why.
I have used the same malt before and after without these results.

Batz


Ross
Really now you need GL to tell you how to brew a good beer ....tis tis :lol: :lol:

 

[Ross]

Really now you need GL to tell you how to brew a good beer ....tis tis :lol: :lol:

Well, GL told me to improve my brewing technique, & I'm always keen to learn ...

cheers Ross

 

[tangent]

Got this lovely e-mail today.
Could dismiss it, but it does make me nervous.

Cancer update -- Johns Hopkins -- Cancer News from Johns Hopkins
1. No plastic containers in micro.
2. No water bottles in freezer.
3. No plastic wrap in microwave.

Johns Hopkins has recently sent this out in its newsletters. This information is being circulated at Walter Reed Army Medical Center as well.!
Dioxin chemicals causes cancer, especially breast cancer.
Dioxins are highly poisonous to the cells of our bodies. Don't freeze your plastic bottles with water in them as this releases dioxins from the plastic.

Recently, Dr. Edward Fujimoto, Wellness Program Manager at Castle Hospital , was on a TV program to explain this health hazard. He talked about dioxins and how bad they are for us.

He said that we should not be heating our food in the microwave using plastic containers. This especially applies to foods that contain fat. He said that the combination of fat, high heat, and plastics releases dioxin into the food and ultimately into the cells of the body.
Instead, he recommends using glass, such as Corning Ware, Pyrex or ceramic containers for heating food. You get the same results, only without the dioxin. So such things as TV dinners, instant ramen and soups, etc., should be removed from the container and heated in something else. Paper isn't bad but you don't know what is in the paper. It's just safer to use tempered glass, Corning Ware, etc.

He reminded us that a while ago some of the fast food restaurants moved away from the foam containers to paper. The dioxin problem is one of the reasons.

Also, he pointed out that plastic wrap, such as Saran, is just as dangerous when placed over foods to be cooked in the microwave. As the food is nuked, the high heat causes poisonous toxins to actually melt out of the plastic wrap and drip into the food.

Cover food with a paper towel instead.